Glossary entry (derived from question below)
Deutsch term or phrase:
seelisch behinderte Menschen
Englisch translation:
people suffering from/who have suffered from mental illness
Added to glossary by
Rachel Ward
Jul 4, 2006 08:30
18 yrs ago
3 viewers *
Deutsch term
Vereinigtes Königreich
For the Love of Language
Native in: Englisch
Works in: Deutsch > Englisch, Französisch > Englisch
seelisch behinderte Menschen
Deutsch > Englisch
Geistes- und Sozialwissenschaften
Bildungswesen/Pädagogik
reference
This is from a reference for a social education worker.
"XXX ist eine Einrichtung zur beruflichen Rehabilitation für seelisch behinderte Menschen. Konzeptionell ist sie ein Angebot für Personen, die infolge psychischer Erkrankung beruflich und sozial benachteiligt sind."
I know that "seelisch behindert" would be "mentally handicapped" or whatever the PC term is at the moment, but "psychischer Erkrankung" is "mental illness", which is rather different, isn't it? I'm not sure whether I'm missing something, or else reading too much into a straightforward paragraph.
I'd be grateful for any opinions/suggestions!
"XXX ist eine Einrichtung zur beruflichen Rehabilitation für seelisch behinderte Menschen. Konzeptionell ist sie ein Angebot für Personen, die infolge psychischer Erkrankung beruflich und sozial benachteiligt sind."
I know that "seelisch behindert" would be "mentally handicapped" or whatever the PC term is at the moment, but "psychischer Erkrankung" is "mental illness", which is rather different, isn't it? I'm not sure whether I'm missing something, or else reading too much into a straightforward paragraph.
I'd be grateful for any opinions/suggestions!
Proposed translations
(Englisch)
Proposed translations
+2
11 Min.
Selected
people suffering from/who have suffered from mental illness
I think you're right. Going by the description in the second sentence you have to assume that is what they are talking about.
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Note added at 4 hrs (2006-07-04 13:01:13 GMT)
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I think the crux of the matter is that your author uses two distinct terms to apparently refer to the same thing. Ideally you need to establish which one he/she actually means.
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Note added at 4 hrs (2006-07-04 13:01:13 GMT)
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I think the crux of the matter is that your author uses two distinct terms to apparently refer to the same thing. Ideally you need to establish which one he/she actually means.
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "I've checked with the client and she says this is it. Still seems an odd piece of German to me, but thanks, and thanks to Craig for the info too."
+1
9 Min.
Lori Dendy-Molz
Deutschland
Deutschland
Native in Englisch
Deutschland
Experienced journalist and marketing pro
Native in: Englisch
Works in: Deutsch > Englisch, Englisch
Related KudoZ points
:
24
mentally disabled
I think this would work for both mental illness and mental handicaps, but there may be a more technical term.
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Note added at 13 mins (2006-07-04 08:43:30 GMT)
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or maybe "people affected by psychiatric disorders"
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Note added at 13 mins (2006-07-04 08:43:30 GMT)
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or maybe "people affected by psychiatric disorders"
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Natalie Aron
: A person who is in a way psycically disabled can be far from being mentally disabled. As I understand it, there can be a great difference between the two of them.
6 Min.
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| neutral |
Eva Middleton
: and individuals with learning disabilities find it very offensive to be lumped together with those who have a mental illness
17 Min.
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| agree |
lucasm (X)
: With psychiatric disorders--what's wrong with this formulation?
2 Stunden
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Thanks. I do think 'psychiatric' is ok here, but 'mental disability' doesn't quite hit it.
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13 Min.
psychically disabled people
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Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Lori Dendy-Molz
: Yes, I think this is better
8 Min.
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Thank you, Lori!
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| neutral |
Peter Barker
: This isn't a common English expression as far as I know. [New:] I didn't say it was wrong. Nevertheless I would think it is less pejorative to say someone is ill rather than disabled
1 Stunde
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Yes, Pete, it isn't a common German expression either. But this does not mean that it is wrong. It is rather a term that is just slowly coming into general use as people are getting aware... Therefore: it is 'psychically' and NOT 'mentally' disabled.
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| neutral |
lucasm (X)
: Please see my comments below.
2 Stunden
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| disagree |
Craig Meulen
: "psychically" disabled is simply wrong, but I checked and there is a lot of usage of "psychologically disabled", although in the usage I found it seems almost synonymous with "mentally ill"
2 Stunden
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25 Min.
emotional difficulties
This tends to be called 'individuals with behavioural and emotional difficulties' in UK education literature.
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Peter Barker
: Does this cover everything that can be included under "psychischer Erkrankung"?
57 Min.
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| neutral |
lucasm (X)
: With DHPete: see my Wikipedia link below; Schizophrenia is more than an emotional difficulty
2 Stunden
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-1
2 Stunden
those with a psychic illness/People with a psychic illness
It doesn't seem to be common yet in the English-speaking realm, but if you want to make the distinction to 'mental' illness, you could try this.
It is rather common on google (2 million plus hits), and certainly avoids the unfortunate use of 'disabled' in English, and the difficult construction 'psychically'.
HTH.
--Otherwise, 'mental illness' is fine. See the description below and compare with mental illness.
It is rather common on google (2 million plus hits), and certainly avoids the unfortunate use of 'disabled' in English, and the difficult construction 'psychically'.
HTH.
--Otherwise, 'mental illness' is fine. See the description below and compare with mental illness.
Peer comment(s):
| disagree |
Craig Meulen
: it's not a "psychic" illness - that word is a false friend - it would be a psychological illness
9 Min.
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Well, golly gee, can't argue with that. Thanks.
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8 Stunden
people with mental disabilities
Although 'disabled' is certainly to be used over 'handicapped', it is also preferable to refer to 'people with mental disabilities' rather than 'the mentally disabled'. In this context this suggested translation would allow you to avoid repeating 'people suffering from mental illnesses' in the next sentence.
2 Stunden
Gabrielle Lyons
Native in Englisch
Specializes in field
The content matters.
Native in: Englisch 
Works in: Französisch > Englisch, Deutsch > Englisch
Related KudoZ points
:
32
people with learning difficulties
This is currently the preferred term (You said you wanted PC!)
Wordbank defines mental handicap as "A dated term for learning difficulties and/or disabilities. "
http://www.connects.org.uk/wordbank.cfm?wordid=598&wbletter=...
e.g. "Instruments designed to assess psychiatric disorders in people with learning difficulties (mental handicap) were critically reviewed from a psychometric ..."
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve& db=PubMed&list_uids=2047490&dopt=Abstrac
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Note added at 1 day1 hr (2006-07-05 09:42:45 GMT) Post-grading
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You and DHPete are right. Mental handicap/learning difficulties is not necessarily the same as mental illness, however, it IS the likliest meaning of "seelisch behindert". The German is confusing. Maybe the answer is to rethink the translation of "psychischer Erkrankung" - maybe "psychiatric (or even mental) disorders" would give a broader range of possibilities than "mental illness" without distorting the original.
Wordbank defines mental handicap as "A dated term for learning difficulties and/or disabilities. "
http://www.connects.org.uk/wordbank.cfm?wordid=598&wbletter=...
e.g. "Instruments designed to assess psychiatric disorders in people with learning difficulties (mental handicap) were critically reviewed from a psychometric ..."
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve& db=PubMed&list_uids=2047490&dopt=Abstrac
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Note added at 1 day1 hr (2006-07-05 09:42:45 GMT) Post-grading
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You and DHPete are right. Mental handicap/learning difficulties is not necessarily the same as mental illness, however, it IS the likliest meaning of "seelisch behindert". The German is confusing. Maybe the answer is to rethink the translation of "psychischer Erkrankung" - maybe "psychiatric (or even mental) disorders" would give a broader range of possibilities than "mental illness" without distorting the original.
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Peter Barker
: Mental handicap may be the same as learning difficulties but are they both the same as mental illness?
1 Stunde
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Not necessarily! I think that's the problem with the German. See my note for more.
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+1
13 Stunden
Craig Meulen
Vereinigtes Königreich
Vereinigtes Königreich
Native in Englisch
Specializes in field
Vereinigtes Königreich
:: Sachtexte mit Stil :: Facts & Flow ::
Native in: Englisch 
Works in: Deutsch > Englisch
Related KudoZ points
:
15
Erklärung
Ich habe einen deutschen Fachmann gefragt, und folgende Erklärung bekommen, die mit dem zu übersetzenden Text gut passt. Leider habe ich heute die Zeit nicht gehabt, nach der besten englischen Übersetzung zu schauen.
"geistig behindert" - am meisten angeboren, manchmal Folge eines Unfalls
"seelisch behindert" - Folge einer psychischen Krankheit
Diese Erklärung widerspricht einigen der Antworten bzw Erklärungen (einschl meine eigene ursprünligche Vorstellung), die davon ausgehen, dass beide Begriffe in dem Text gleichbedeutend sind.
Ich schaue morgen nach entsprechenden englischen Texten.
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Note added at 1 day1 hr (2006-07-05 10:03:11 GMT) Post-grading
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Ich habe noch keinen Beweis gefunden, dass es tatsächlich diesen Unterschied auch im englischen Sprachgebrauch gibt - bitte um Links, wenn du mehr weisst!
Habe nach "psychologically disabled" gesucht, viele Benutzungen gefunden, aber wenn man die Texte liest, handeln sie nicht um diesen genauen Unterschied, der im zu übersetzenden Text und in der Definition des Fachmanns zu finden ist.
Mit Ilse habe ich "disagree" eingetragen, weil es definitiv nicht "psychically" disabled ist.
"geistig behindert" - am meisten angeboren, manchmal Folge eines Unfalls
"seelisch behindert" - Folge einer psychischen Krankheit
Diese Erklärung widerspricht einigen der Antworten bzw Erklärungen (einschl meine eigene ursprünligche Vorstellung), die davon ausgehen, dass beide Begriffe in dem Text gleichbedeutend sind.
Ich schaue morgen nach entsprechenden englischen Texten.
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Note added at 1 day1 hr (2006-07-05 10:03:11 GMT) Post-grading
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Ich habe noch keinen Beweis gefunden, dass es tatsächlich diesen Unterschied auch im englischen Sprachgebrauch gibt - bitte um Links, wenn du mehr weisst!
Habe nach "psychologically disabled" gesucht, viele Benutzungen gefunden, aber wenn man die Texte liest, handeln sie nicht um diesen genauen Unterschied, der im zu übersetzenden Text und in der Definition des Fachmanns zu finden ist.
Mit Ilse habe ich "disagree" eingetragen, weil es definitiv nicht "psychically" disabled ist.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Natalie Aron
: Ja, Craig, da liegst du absolut richtig. Deshalb verstehe ich auch dein 'disagree' zu meinem Eintrag nicht...
10 Stunden
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