| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | Is it acceptable that a client lowers an already set rate? Thread poster: Patricia Ballesteros Menéndez
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Lingua 5B 
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 13:19
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
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Patricia Ballesteros Menéndez wrote:
Dear colleagues,
I have a client for which I have been working now for two years. It is a medium-sized agency, and they have recently asked me to lower my rate, as they claim to have renegotiated their own rates with end clients. This rate was agreed when we started our collaboration, and I can say it is not astronomically high, so I am not willing to accept this new condition; after all, I have not risen my rate for them in all this time, why should they have the right to decrease it?
I have the impression that this is not the usual procedure in our business, or at least not an ethical procedure, but I would like to know your opinion.
What do you think about this?
[Editado a las 2016-02-11 01:31 GMT]
Ask them to provide evidence of their discussing the rate decrease with the client (for instance, email screenshots or alike). Tell them you appreciate the business you did together, but that you prefer business done in the full light, not in the dark.
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Suzanne Smart wrote:
They negotiated with their client. So what? That has nothing to do with your arrangement with them.
I just read in a translator's experienced blog on the Net that winning is not about the client losing and the translator winning, but about finding an arrangement that satisfies both sides. In other terms-> diplomacy.
This blog advice is probably the most important piece of advice I've ever read IMHO and conditions all else I think.
| | | | | Expectations | Feb 11, 2016 |
Alexandre Chetrite wrote: Bernhard Sulzer wrote: Patricia Ballesteros Menéndez wrote:
Dear colleagues,
I have a client for which I have been working now for two years. It is a medium-sized agency, and they have recently asked me to lower my rate, as they claim to have renegotiated their own rates with end clients. This rate was agreed when we started our collaboration, and I can say it is not astronomically high.
I have the impression that this is not the usual procedure in our business, or at least not a very ethical procedure, but I would like to know your opinion.
What do you think about this? If you are a freelancer, you are the one that determines your rate/price/fee. So if an agency asks you to lower your rate or it won't give you that project, you have two choices: you can accept or reject it. That they have possibly renegotiated their rates with the end client is no reason for you to follow suit. But it's up to you. You can either charge reasonable rates or work for the bottom feeders of our industry. If you are experienced and educated (self- or otherwise), you deserve adequate payment. Working for peanuts turns you into a monkey, as many have said before. As far as procedures in our business are concerned, there are many different (all) types of players in our industry. I stick with the ones I can trust and that pay adequately. It's the only way I can look at myself in the mirror. [Edited at 2016-02-11 01:54 GMT] - Hello, I would like to ask you a question: you stated "If you are experienced and educated (self- or otherwise), you deserve adequate payment." What about freelance translators who are highly educated by education and by themselves, but don't possess a great amount of formal experience (for personal reasons)? Do they deserve adequate payment too, or do they have to work for bottom feeders of the translation industry until they acquire this experience? Please note that I stated "formal experience". Because one can have little formal experience and still have a lot of informal experience (self-educated in several fields, but not credited for it).And the other way around too by the way...
You should never work for bottom feeders if you are a professional translator. To be a professional translator, you must have acquired a certain amount of knowledge and have to be able to accurately translate texts. So, you have to have experience in using at least two languages, one being your native language, and the other, if not your native language, to a degree that allows you to do the sophisticated work that is expected from professionals in our industry.
[Edited at 2016-02-11 18:53 GMT]
| | | | | Turn it down | Feb 11, 2016 |
Patricia Ballesteros Menéndez wrote:
Dear colleagues,
I have a client for which I have been working now for two years. It is a medium-sized agency, and they have recently asked me to lower my rate, as they claim to have renegotiated their own rates with end clients. This rate was agreed when we started our collaboration, and I can say it is not astronomically high, so I am not willing to accept this new condition; after all, I have not risen my rate for them in all this time, why should they have the right to decrease it?
I have the impression that this is not the usual procedure in our business, or at least not an ethical procedure, but I would like to know your opinion.
What do you think about this?
[Editado a las 2016-02-11 01:31 GMT]
Tell them why you can't accept this (in a way that Tomás explained it: "competitive... quality..." etc.) Remain professional. Turning their "offer" down doesn't automatically mean that you will lose them.
...although I also like Thomas' idea of raising the rate.
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| Only if it's acceptable for you | Feb 11, 2016 |
The others have given a lot of good advice. At the end of the day, the price decrease is only acceptable if it's acceptable for you. Standing my ground, and moving on to greener pastures has always worked for me.
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Sheila Wilson wrote:
If they thought they could still make a profit by lowering their rates, it should have been as a result of being able to reduce costs that they control: reducing staff numbers, renting smaller premises, reducing waste (consumables, energy, staff downtime...) etc. The only way they can control the cost of supplies, in this particular context of translations where quality presumably cannot be compromised, is to find someone who will do the same quality work more cheaply. There's no way they have any right to demand (or even ask, in my book) that you reduce your rates for doing exactly the same work.
This!
In most areas of business, it would never even be suggested.
Not sure of that any more, but translators do seem to get singled out somewhat.
I also like Mirko's reminder of realism and Tomás's suggestion of letting it lie, both coming down to how you don't want to lose even more by making a rash decision.
And I think others have already made the point, but A CLIENT CANNOT LOWER A RATE. A client can say they can no longer afford to pay a supplier's rates, but that's all. A product supplier might then be happy to negotiate a lower price. For example, a manufacturer could change the process a little to produce a slightly inferior product that still suits the purpose - a cheaper paint job, maybe). A translator doesn't normally have that sort of negotiating room. Reducing the quality without potentially introducing major errors is not something that we can normally do, even if we were willing to oblige.
In a normal B2B relationship yeah, but not really in a procurement model where the glorified buyer sets the terms for 'vendors' and 'suppliers' nothing is normal any more. And that's the model agencies usually force on us.
I imagine they've caved into a similar demand from a bigger agency. And now they expect you to do the same. Do it if you like, but expect exactly the same to happen in a year's time, if not sooner.
Till they meet resistance, they'll just keep caving in and transferring the pay reduction to translators, pretty much because it costs them nothing and is the easiest solution emotionally and otherwise.
[Edited at 2016-02-15 14:04 GMT]
[Edited at 2016-02-15 14:28 GMT]
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Chances are their own client or larger agency has just done the same to them, so now they're feeling powerless and turning to you to save them — and their margin.
But chances are they're also taking a large hit themselves but want to share the loss proportionally (which may well appear to them as a fair solution, from their perspetive), not transfer it whole.
Alternatively, someone out there may be paying lip service to a 'brilliant' suggestion from the CFO or Subhuma... See more Chances are their own client or larger agency has just done the same to them, so now they're feeling powerless and turning to you to save them — and their margin.
But chances are they're also taking a large hit themselves but want to share the loss proportionally (which may well appear to them as a fair solution, from their perspetive), not transfer it whole.
Alternatively, someone out there may be paying lip service to a 'brilliant' suggestion from the CFO or Subhuman Resources, which compels a PM/account manager to at least ask. (In which case you really don't want to alienate that PM/AM).
You never really know, and if you presume something before replying in terse words you can be mistaken and alienate them with what they're going to see as arrogance and lack of insight.
You could try explaining the differences between an intermediary's business model and explaining that, as you're time-limited (which is a type of being production-limited), you can't make up with increased volume what you lose by hypothetically* decreasing your unit price.
* Try to refer to their proposal, request or even outright demand as a hypothetical, not an already accomplished fact. This will allow them to back out and save face more easily, it will also avoid polarizing them. People are receptive to suggestions like that, so by talking about it like a fait accompli you actually could make them more determined to proceed with it than they originally were.
Don't be afraid of silence. Put the ball in their court a lot. Brevity also helps (unlike this post ). And be courteous. Not warm and effusive but professionally courteous, which means keeping some distance and keeping cool.
Lingua 5B wrote: Patricia Ballesteros Menéndez wrote:
Dear colleagues,
I have a client for which I have been working now for two years. It is a medium-sized agency, and they have recently asked me to lower my rate, as they claim to have renegotiated their own rates with end clients. This rate was agreed when we started our collaboration, and I can say it is not astronomically high, so I am not willing to accept this new condition; after all, I have not risen my rate for them in all this time, why should they have the right to decrease it?
I have the impression that this is not the usual procedure in our business, or at least not an ethical procedure, but I would like to know your opinion.
What do you think about this?
[Editado a las 2016-02-11 01:31 GMT] Ask them to provide evidence of their discussing the rate decrease with the client (for instance, email screenshots or alike). Tell them you appreciate the business you did together, but that you prefer business done in the full light, not in the dark.
I would be careful with making them prove their words, but on other hand those requests for lower rates can sometimes be based on general trends and desires in the agency's business rather than the particulars of a specific line of projects for a specific client.
[Edited at 2016-02-15 14:32 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Parrot
Spain
Local time: 13:19
Spanish to English
+ ...
Patricia Ballesteros Menéndez wrote:
Dear colleagues,
I have a client for which I have been working now for two years. It is a medium-sized agency, and they have recently asked me to lower my rate, as they claim to have renegotiated their own rates with end clients. This rate was agreed when we started our collaboration, and I can say it is not astronomically high, so I am not willing to accept this new condition; after all, I have not risen my rate for them in all this time, why should they have the right to decrease it?
I have the impression that this is not the usual procedure in our business, or at least not an ethical procedure, but I would like to know your opinion.
What do you think about this?
[Editado a las 2016-02-11 01:31 GMT]
I'd add:
Consideration 1: Haven't you noticed you get better with time? Why do you have work under worse conditions?
Consideration 2: I noticed we live in the same country. Same laws. Same Social Security terms, which - I'm sure you haven't failed to notice - get more taxing every year, despite drops in the consumer price index. Looked at this way, some agencies around us can only afford beginners. In the name of the free market, we have to live with them. Not necessarily work with them.
Agencies are into management, not translation per se. They can get more productive playing with margins. We don't type THAT MUCH faster. (Don't even say "translate").
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| There's more to it, even | Feb 20, 2016 |
Parrot wrote:
Agencies are into management, not translation per se. They can get more productive playing with margins. We don't type THAT MUCH faster. (Don't even say "translate").
Yes, we can't benefit from economies of scale and scape as much as agencies do, which they'd do well to understand and not expect us to drop the prices just because the volume of the order's going up, where production capacity is limited and is going to be realized in full no matter what.
However, there is a certain aspect of scale that's never openly acknowledged but keeps helping some of us raise or sustain their rates: our translations often help multiple people do things for multiple people. The costs are neglible next to the benefits of such an operation — which probably actually is half the reason our contribution is so underestimated. People just aren't accustomed to thinking so much of it as is the case with those consultants and others who charge a commission on transaction value.
Get the clients to acknowledge that as your input and not their birthright, and you suddenly get a lot new leverage in negotiating your fees.
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