| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | Translator charging per page - 175 words per page ?? Thread poster: emilens
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Let's also not underestimate the time required to deal with pdf files. We all know that you cannot stick a pdf file right into your CAT tool. Rather, you will need to OCR the thing, edit and format the output to make it match with the original pdf source file and than start the actual translation work.
From what the OP clarified, it seems to me that the deal was this: the translator received a 50 page pdf file, They quoted x amount per page for that specific document. The outsourcer... See more Let's also not underestimate the time required to deal with pdf files. We all know that you cannot stick a pdf file right into your CAT tool. Rather, you will need to OCR the thing, edit and format the output to make it match with the original pdf source file and than start the actual translation work.
From what the OP clarified, it seems to me that the deal was this: the translator received a 50 page pdf file, They quoted x amount per page for that specific document. The outsourcer accepted the deal. Word count becomes irrelevant. Quoting total fee too becomes irrelevant, as it is straightforward to add up 50 pages and multiply it by the amount quoted per page.
I might be missing something, but this is what it seems to me. Charging on a per page basis does look odd, though. A fairer deal would be this: OCR the file and quote per word based on the actual word count, plus an hourly fee to deal with pdf conversion and formatting. ▲ Collapse
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To avoid unit issues and other silly disputes over what is meant by a word, a repetition, a page, a source word/character et al., wouldn't it be smart for outsourcers to request a final overall price for a one-off translation instead of a unit price?
It sounds like asking a builder how much they charge for laying one brick, and then figure out by yourself how much your house will cost.
But what the OP experienced at their expense is what translators also experience when... See more To avoid unit issues and other silly disputes over what is meant by a word, a repetition, a page, a source word/character et al., wouldn't it be smart for outsourcers to request a final overall price for a one-off translation instead of a unit price?
It sounds like asking a builder how much they charge for laying one brick, and then figure out by yourself how much your house will cost.
But what the OP experienced at their expense is what translators also experience when they give unit prices to unscrupulous prospective agencies, which then make quantum-fuzzy calculations to decrease the overall fee of a one-off translation.
Had I been the translator, I would have stated a final price, and as an outsourcer, I'd have had the total price confirmed beforehand.
Basic business, whether or not either party know what they talk about in terms of units.
The only unit understood by anybody is €$£.
Philippe ▲ Collapse
| | | | olafspg (X) 
Local time: 13:29
English to Latvian
+ ...
| Count the words in source document | May 23, 2016 |
emilens wrote:
Just to clarify - i sent him a 50 page pdf document, where some pages (source document) has 580 words per page and others 135 words, to give an example.
He then sent me a quote where he did not state the total amount to be charged, only " I will charge XX USD per translated page". I want to be clear I was the one making the mistake of hiring without understanding the quote, only assuming it would mean what I am used to from previous experiences (1 translated page = 250 words from source document), and that therefore I will pay what he has invoiced me, although I would never have hired him if I new that his definition of 1 page = 174 words from source document, which I find an incredible low number.
Thank you all for your feedback so far
Technically, "USD per translated page" means you should multiply the rate by 50 and get the total budget. But to be sure - why don't you just count the source document words, divide them by 50 and you should get the source document word count per page. Maybe that is how the translator calculated the rate, i.e., average word count per page = 174, standart rate for 250 word page is YY, so the rate for 174 word page would be YY/250*174. Maybe that's how the translator calculated the rate? And just gave you a rate that is to understand for a non-translator?
| | | | | That simple? | May 23, 2016 |
Merab Dekano wrote:
From what the OP clarified, it seems to me that the deal was this: the translator received a 50 page pdf file, They quoted x amount per page for that specific document. The outsourcer accepted the deal. Word count becomes irrelevant. Quoting total fee too becomes irrelevant, as it is straightforward to add up 50 pages and multiply it by the amount quoted per page.
If that's what happened, then the question posted here seems like a very complicated way to pose a very simple question. If the translator translated 50 pages and charged for 50 pages, it is unfortunate that he didn't write "per page in the PDF file" or explicitly indicate the total, but there is nothing very mysterious about what went on and it hardly seems surprising.
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| Number of characters, not words | May 24, 2016 |
As someone who also works from German to English, I agree with Michael that a set number of words per page doesn't make much sense since languages vary so greatly. In Germany, the common standards are for pages to be defined either as 1600 or 1800 characters, although typically translations are charged by line (55 characters). You'd have to look into how many words that is on average in your language pair.
But in response to the original post, I would contact the translator and ask ... See more As someone who also works from German to English, I agree with Michael that a set number of words per page doesn't make much sense since languages vary so greatly. In Germany, the common standards are for pages to be defined either as 1600 or 1800 characters, although typically translations are charged by line (55 characters). You'd have to look into how many words that is on average in your language pair.
But in response to the original post, I would contact the translator and ask how he arrived at that number of pages. Maybe he'll respond along the lines of, "I calculate using the standard of XYZ, which goes by 174 words / page" or "1600 characters per page" and then you'll know for the future. While it is ultimately your problem for not clarifying in advance how many pages were in the document, I think the translator should have provided that clarification. It's one thing if a translator is working with an agency, in which case it can be assumed that they know a line is 55 characters including spaces. But when giving a quote to an end client, I always write "My price is X.XX€ / line (55 characters including spaces)" or "I charge XX€ / page (1800 characters including spaces)." Better yet, if I already have the document then I give them the end price (I charge X.XX€ / line, and your document has 1354.54 lines, so my offer is XXXX€ including VAT.).
I think it would be ok in this case to ask the translator how he calculated the pages, and then in future you know to clarify that in advance. ▲ Collapse
| | | | S_G_C
Romania
Local time: 13:29
English to Romanian
| Units of measure | May 29, 2016 |
2,000 characters with spaces equals one page in my country.
It is applied to the source text when the format allows counting. When it does not, it is applied to the target text.
In one sample of text that I have just checked (in Romanian), including both numbers and letters, 2,000 characters with spaces = 287 words.
| | | | Huw Watkins
United Kingdom
Local time: 11:29
Member (2005)
Italian to English
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| I've always had 250 words per page in mind too | May 29, 2016 |
That said, I concur with the concept that working with OCR documents is very time consuming. Therefore the rate you are being charged includes a fairly hefty surcharge for processing the OCR document. Even so, I still think that 200 words would have been nearer the mark - for most Latin-alphabet-based languages anyway - as it would equate to a 20% surcharge if my maths is correct.
Again though, this all depends on the source language in question.
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Philippe Etienne wrote:
To avoid unit issues and other silly disputes over what is meant by a word, a repetition, a page, a source word/character et al., wouldn't it be smart for outsourcers to request a final overall price for a one-off translation instead of a unit price?
It sounds like asking a builder how much they charge for laying one brick, and then figure out by yourself how much your house will cost.
Philippe
I never quote a total project fee to my customers who know my per word fee. In fact, I invoice to some of my high volume customers once per month. They know that if the project contains X words, I will invoice X times my per word rate. Quoting total fee in this case would be redundant and unnecessary.
I think the problem with the OP's case was different. The parties did not agree on the definition of the "page".
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Merab Dekano wrote:
I never quote a total project fee to my customers who know my per word fee. In fact, I invoice to some of my high volume customers once per month. They know that if the project contains X words, I will invoice X times my per word rate. Quoting total fee in this case would be redundant and unnecessary.
Indeed, and I do the same with returning customers. But at the "priming" phase or for a one-off (one can never be sure whether a first-time customer will become a "returning" customer or a "one-off"), everything has to be very clear, so there can't be any misinterpretation from either side. Outsourcers or translators must therefore state at one point a total €$£ only, without intermediate units like word, weighted word, page, character, etc. An amount to be accepted or declined.
It's only after this priming phase that is achieved a mutual understanding and trust about how things stand and how people work.
Philippe
[Edited at 2016-05-29 17:57 GMT]
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