| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5] > | Upset about low rates? Proz's new TM Town isn't helping! Thread poster: Catherine Howard
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Thayenga 
Germany
Local time: 04:23
Member (2009)
English to German
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Natalia Postrigan wrote:
Folks, I'll be concise. If you leave because you protest against low rates, it will only bring down the average rates even further. Can we come up with a better solution?
Such as ban all job offers below EUR 0.07 from even being posted. At least this would keep the bottom feeders away.
| | | | Robert Forstag
United States
Local time: 22:23
Spanish to English
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| A double-edged sword | Jun 24, 2016 |
@Catherine:
Many thanks for raising fundamental issues of general concern to members and users of this site, and for doing so in a measured and dignified way.
A few thoughts regarding issues raised in this thread:
While the notification regarding low offers on the Jobs Board was a step in the right direction, I think many would agree with me that it was a rather mincing step. A bolder stride toward advancing the real interests of freelancers would involve ... See more @Catherine:
Many thanks for raising fundamental issues of general concern to members and users of this site, and for doing so in a measured and dignified way.
A few thoughts regarding issues raised in this thread:
While the notification regarding low offers on the Jobs Board was a step in the right direction, I think many would agree with me that it was a rather mincing step. A bolder stride toward advancing the real interests of freelancers would involve identifying these lowball offers on the home page entry of the post in question (something I suggested a few months ago: see http://www.proz.com/forum/prozcom_job_systems/300259-staff_can_you_do_something_about_the_ubiquitous_big_recruitments_for_small_jobs-page2.html#2538310 ).
***
I agree with Catherine, Lukasz, and others that this site has contributed to the depression of freelancer rates over the years. I also think Catherine is very much on point when she argues that TM Town's offering a drop-down option that includes a rate of $0.04/word is simply one subtle way in which this contribution manifests itself. Another is a Jobs Board where the vast majority of postings explicitly or implicitly involve a search for professional translation services at below-market rates. Is there anyone working in, say, the top 10 language pairs who would seriously argue otherwise?
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The core issue here (as I've pointed out previously) is that proz.com is really a double-edged sword. On the one hand, it provides a platform for professionals offering translation services at relatively low cost and with the possibility of high internet exposure. On the other hand, it offers this same platform to pretty much anyone willing to take the time to set up a profile or cough up a membership fee, thus contributing to a general debasement of the profession, and a general downward pressure on rates.
[Edited at 2016-06-24 16:10 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Lingua 5B
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 04:23
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
+ ...
| There is even more.... | Jun 24, 2016 |
Thayenga wrote: Seriously, how can anbody in a non-third-world country make a halfway decent living and pay bills and ProZ membership at 4 cents a word? Everything becomes more and more expensive across the globe, yet translators are apparently expected to work for peanuts..or perhaps one day pay the outsourcers for getting a job.  And, Catherine, aside from agreeing with what you've stated here, I also want this unsolicitate TM link removed from my profile page. Alternatively, I could add a statement in my About Me: I do not support TM or the rates offered there.
I am constantly being invited for various seminars that require travel and cost money, webinars, to buy various tools, etc. Constantly getting invitations to purchase something. While my selling rate at that same site that wants to turn me into a constant buyer, is going progressively down. So how can a translator working at 0.04 buy all those tools and visit all those seminars in distant countries?
If you want us to earn enough to buy everything you are trying to sell, then you will have to bring us clients who pay rates 5x higher than they do now.
[Edited at 2016-06-24 18:01 GMT]
| | | | | We don't have to get sucked into anything | Jun 24, 2016 |
Catherine V. Howard wrote:
Hey folks, have you noticed the rates being offered through Proz's new TM Town platform? It's making it easy for clients to search for translators offering rates as low as $0.04 a word-- so easy, in fact, that you could say its actual effect is to promote such rates.
I tried out finding a translator on the "Town" with quality credentials who would offer his/her services for 5 Cents. I only found one who made it clear that he doesn't work for less than 12 Cents a word. But I did specify he needed at least a master's degree (just to see if there actually were people sinking that low). The fact remains, when you look for a translator you are presented with possible rates, 5 Cents or lower. Of course you also have the option to enter your own higher rat; a link to Proz.com community rates is also provided.
Catherine V. Howard wrote:
For any Proz translators who've been around for a good while, they may remember when the emergence of Proz at the turn of the millenium had a powerful impact on the translation profession by making it easy -- too easy, many argued -- for clients to comb the globe for the lowest bidders through its reverse auction platform. The simple existence of the platform unleashed a set of processes that exerted inexorable downward pressure on rates across the board globally -- not the only factor, but a significant one nonetheless.
I am happy to report that from my perspective, I see a change in a trend. I get more and more inquiries from people (agencies included) that are willing to pay higher rates for quality services. Maybe it's just me but it sure looks like serious clients are doing a bit more research to find serious translators, and that includes not working with people who work for incredibly low rates. The cheaper the rate, the less likely it is that quality is the outcome. I actually was able to get a job from the Proz.com job board at an acceptable rate last week. There's no reason to give in to lowball offers anywhere. (edited)
Catherine V. Howard wrote:
At one point, Proz members protested so loudly about how the platform was promoting lower rates that a minor cosmetic change was introduced: Proz started labeling exceptionally low rates with a small box stating that the offer was below the average rates of Proz members in that language pair. It hasn't done anything to stem the flood of low offers, but one could argue that it has a bit of symbolic value.
Well, even that symbolic gesture by Proz authorities is now getting undermined by its shiny new directory, TM Town.
I am no friend of the bidding system in general, and those in particular where price plays the most important role. People who think they need to compete on price only hurt themselves in the end. We are all flexible when it comes to pricing, but we don't need to sell ourselves short.
Catherine V. Howard wrote:
Take a look at Proz's TM Town website, if you haven't already. In the Search Directory on the left, you'll see a set of filters that clients can use to find translators. Among those filters are ones under "Budget (per word)." Click on that and up pops a set a options -- starting with $0.04 a word. Click on that, maybe along with your language pair, and you'll see a slew of your colleagues' profiles pop up who have unabashedly publicized their willingness to work for this rate. As more and more translators get sucked into TM Town, that number will only grow.
I tried this for both my language directions, only ticking high school diploma and with the native language for the target text. I didn't get too many results, especially not into English (US). Even the ones who quoted 4 Cents or below offer their services within a rate range (i.e. 3 - 13 Cents for example). If they want to work hard for 3 Cents, then they are just working too hard or aren't convinced they can't get any better job. But it's more likely they advertise a range and then quote higher than expected. Anyway, I am not too concerned about that competition. It's advertisement, that's what it is.
I am currently not interested in TM-Town especially because I don't agree on the use of the TMs.
See my comment here:
http://www.proz.com/forum/prozcom_translator_coop/300979-complimentary_tm_town_membership_for_prozcom_members-page3.html#2543117
Catherine V. Howard wrote:
Imagine you're a client who'd dealt with professional translators before and who believed them when they said that respectable rates should not be less than $0.20, $0.15, $0.10, whatever. But then they see this option of $0.04: "Wow," they think, "Let's take a look!" They click on the option and voilá, up pops a host of TM Town translators willing to work for $0.04 per word OR LESS. There are so many, in fact, that this hypothetical client might get the idea that this is a perfectly acceptable rate. After all, TM Town marketing promises that its translators are the "professionals" who, through the TM Town engine, are ideally matched to the client's job. "Wow, I'd love to save money on this project," the client thinks. Some clients may be lowly project managers whose eyes glow at the thought of how pleased their boss will be with having come in way under budget. "Won't that look good when it comes time for year-end bonuses..."
It all comes down to the translators themselves. A translator who is busy working for peanuts will have plenty of problems delivering what he/she promises. I am not worried about that anymore.
Catherine V. Howard wrote:
Oh, and even if the client didn't search for translators by "Budget (per word)," there are still plenty of other enticements dangled in front of the client's eyes if he or she happened to land on your profile page. Maybe the client was even on the brink of contacting you for a job -- until scrolling down and seeing the words in huge letters, "Similar translators." The clients starts looking at their profiles and, in no time, finds some offering far lower rates, down to the subterranean depths of $0.04 and less.
Maybe another reason not to bother signing up there as a translator.
Catherine V. Howard wrote:
As Proz's TM Town expands, these and other functions are going to not merely enable but, I'd argue, actually encourage clients to consider the lowest possible rates for translation. This hurts not just individual translators, but the entire profession itself. And it makes TM Town's claim that its mission is "to serve translators" ring hollow indeed.
I am not convinced that it will have that effect on our profession, overall. As long as there are ways to advertise on sites like Proz.com and others (for a reasonable fee or even free) and I get reasonably paying clients, I have no reason not to advertise there. Things have been looking up lately. Combined with one's additional efforts for advertising, website, blogs etc., one should be able to stick to one's guns. There is no alternative. Only that way can one provide quality service and pursue this as a successful career. That's not to say it isn't important to observe what's going on on these portals and to speak out against what we perceive as a mistake or as unacceptable.
Catherine V. Howard wrote:
I would respectfully request that Proz and TM Town authorities reflect on what their engines are promoting. I would further ask them to remove the buttons with the lowest rates, add a pop-up warning to translators who try to post such low rates that informs them that their rates are below those considered acceptable by the Proz community, and include a link for clients taking them to the Proz charts showing the results of rate surveys. It was encouraging to see Proz and TM Town respond yesterday to members' objections about the links at the bottom of their profiles luring clients away to TM Town competitors; I hope this same responsiveness is shown over this issue.
Good suggestions. But the longer I work in this business, the more I find that building up a client base/ having customers return and word of mouth are much more important than anything that happens on platforms where people desperately compete on price.
If it were up to me, Proz.com, focus on expanding the profiles and encourage clients to visit profiles instead of possibly inviting cheap bids.
[Edited at 2016-06-24 18:59 GMT]
[Edited at 2016-06-25 06:40 GMT]
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Catherine Howard
United States
Local time: 22:23
Portuguese to English
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TOPIC STARTER | widening our perspectives | Jun 24, 2016 |
Bernhard, it's great to hear business is going well for you. I celebrate whenever I hear of translators getting enough decent assignments at decent rates.
I've noticed, however, that most of my colleagues working to/from German and English rarely look beyond trends in their own particular language pair to what's happening in the translation landscape globally and historically. This isn't surprising, since any group in a country that's doing well usually feels comfortable and doesn... See more Bernhard, it's great to hear business is going well for you. I celebrate whenever I hear of translators getting enough decent assignments at decent rates.
I've noticed, however, that most of my colleagues working to/from German and English rarely look beyond trends in their own particular language pair to what's happening in the translation landscape globally and historically. This isn't surprising, since any group in a country that's doing well usually feels comfortable and doesn't feel the need to look outside. Germany is the wealthiest and most stable country in Europe, plus it has no ex-colonies in the global South where German would be a national language. By contrast, other countries in Europe (other than the Nordic ones) are not doing as well, and are either ex-Soviet colonies or have ex-colonies themselves, both of which are now independent nations that suffer badly from underdevelopment and subordinate economic relations. This means they provide huge pools of translators willing and able to work for far less than those in advanced economies, thereby dragging down the market rates that agencies, in particular, can exploit. Of translators in the advanced economies, German ones (as well as Nordic translators) are the most privileged, precisely because they do not have to compete with large pools of translators from underdeveloped economies. The German/English language pair is the exception that proves the rule.
Psychologists have long been aware of the tendency called the "self-serving bias," which is expressed in two complementary ways: the tendency for people to attribute their successes to their own individual behaviors, ignoring the context and circumstances that allowed those behaviors to succeed; and the inverse tendency for them to blame their failures on the context and circumstances, ignoring their own individual behaviors that may prevent them from succeeding. Being fallible human beings, we all engage in both, to different degrees at different points in our lives, depending on how we're doing and which version best "serves" our need to affirm our sense of self-worth. There's nothing wrong with affirming one's worth, but the healthiest, most realistic way to do so takes into account BOTH sides of the coin: our individual behaviors AND the context and circumstances in which they occur.
Translators in my language pair, Portuguese/English, who live in expensive English-speaking countries sometimes focus too much on blaming the context and circumstances for their difficulties, since it IS, in fact, hard to survive on the low rates that agencies can extract from competing translators in ex-Portuguese countries. We sometimes forget to factor in our own behaviors influencing our personal situation. By contrast, translators in the German/English pair, living in Germany or in well-off English-speaking countries, sometimes focus too much on taking credit personally for their success, since it is, in fact, much easier for anyone in their situation to succeed, but they forget to factor in the privileges enjoyed by Germany and many English-speaking countries.
As a result, German/English translators often "hear" their colleagues working with languages such as Spanish, Portuguese, those of eastern Europe, and so on as "whining" too much about their circumstances, while the latter often "hear" their German/English colleagues as being "arrogant" or "blind" about their privileges. I contend that we should all speak and listen with greater awareness, giving BOTH personal behaviors AND contextual circumstances equal weight.
I hope you "hear" this as part of a constructive dialogue, not as any personal criticism.
[Edited at 2016-06-25 01:28 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | ..... (X)
Local time: 11:23
First, to clear up any misconceptions - TM-Town does not have a job board. On TM-Town clients or agencies can message a translator through the 'Message Translator' button on the translator's profile. We send the message along to the translator as long as it is not spam and is above the translator's "Don't Bother Me Rate". From there, it is up to the translator to proceed as s/he sees fit. The rest happens outside of TM-Town and TM-Town takes no cut of any job you may get.
As I said ... See more First, to clear up any misconceptions - TM-Town does not have a job board. On TM-Town clients or agencies can message a translator through the 'Message Translator' button on the translator's profile. We send the message along to the translator as long as it is not spam and is above the translator's "Don't Bother Me Rate". From there, it is up to the translator to proceed as s/he sees fit. The rest happens outside of TM-Town and TM-Town takes no cut of any job you may get.
As I said earlier in this thread, I think in general translators underestimate the sophistication of clients and agencies. If you think they are simply using TM-Town or ProZ.com to "choose the translator with the lowest rate", that's just not true...and the data below bears that out.
As I also said, are there are bad clients out there - yes. Are there clients that don't care about quality - yes. Are there clients that won't pay more than $0.04 no matter what - yes. It is easy for this minority to catch the attention of translators though as a forum thread titled "Look at this peanut rate I was just offered!!!" gets more views and replies than "I just negotiated a solid rate with a new client".
Anyway, here is the data of the job messages that have passed through TM-Town's system to date and the rate ranges of the translators that were messaged. As you can see the overwhelming majority (71.95%) were to translators who did not set a rate range which I hope will give you comfort that clients and agencies are not just choosing the translator with the lowest rate.
Rate range of translator % of total job messages
Rate range not specified 71.95%
$0.03 - $0.08 1.83%
$0.12 - $0.15 1.52%
$0.06 - $0.08 1.52%
$0.06 - $0.12 1.22%
$0.10 - $0.15 0.91%
$0.10 - $0.12 0.91%
$0.08 - $0.12 0.91%
$0.07 - $0.14 0.91%
$0.05 - $0.09 0.91%
$0.04 - $0.10 0.91%
$0.09 - $0.14 0.61%
$0.08 - Not specified 0.61%
$0.08 - $0.11 0.61%
$0.08 - $0.10 0.61%
$0.07 - $0.13 0.61%
$0.07 - $0.10 0.61%
$0.06 - $0.10 0.61%
$0.05 - $0.10 0.61%
$0.05 - $0.08 0.61%
$0.03 - $0.04 0.61%
$0.15 - $0.35 0.30%
$0.12 - $0.20 0.30%
$0.12 - $0.16 0.30%
$0.11 - $0.20 0.30%
$0.10 - $0.50 0.30%
$0.10 - $0.20 0.30%
$0.10 - $0.18 0.30%
$0.10 - $0.16 0.30%
$0.09 - $0.15 0.30%
$0.09 - $0.13 0.30%
$0.09 - $0.11 0.30%
$0.08 - $0.25 0.30%
$0.08 - $0.17 0.30%
$0.07 - $0.22 0.30%
$0.07 - $0.17 0.30%
$0.07 - $0.11 0.30%
$0.07 - $0.09 0.30%
$0.06 - $0.20 0.30%
$0.06 - $0.15 0.30%
$0.06 - $0.11 0.30%
$0.06 - $0.07 0.30%
$0.05 - Not specified 0.30%
$0.05 - $0.15 0.30%
$0.05 - $0.11 0.30%
$0.04 - Not specified 0.30%
$0.04 - $0.13 0.30%
$0.04 - $0.09 0.30%
$0.04 - $0.08 0.30%
$0.04 - $0.05 0.30%
$0.03 - Not specified 0.30%
$0.03 - $0.30 0.30%
$0.03 - $0.12 0.30%
$0.03 - $0.10 0.30%
$0.03 - $0.07 0.30% ▲ Collapse
| | | | | It's never easy | Jun 25, 2016 |
Catherine V. Howard wrote:
Bernhard, it's great to hear business is going well for you. I celebrate whenever I hear of translators getting enough decent assignments at decent rates.
I've noticed, however, that most of my colleagues working to/from German and English rarely look beyond trends in their own particular language pair to what's happening in the translation landscape globally and historically. This isn't surprising, since any group in a country that's doing well usually feels comfortable and doesn't feel the need to look outside.
Hi Catherine,
Thanks for engaging in a dialogue.
I can only speak for myself. I live in the US and it has not been an easy ride for me at all at any point. I learned a lot of things the hard way. I am glad things are looking up at this point and I do care about other colleagues who are in difficult situations no matter where they live.
The main point I want to make is that we cannot rely on platforms adapting to our needs as long as they first follow their own goals. I am sure it is much harder for many others than it is for me to get decent pay or enough work for decent pay. I don't have a strategy that guarantees success, and it usually is an up and down curve when it comes to getting good jobs. I have had to pursue a lot of things, including teaching, tutoring (privately as well as in class environments), and more. I would say that no matter where you live, when it comes to translating, it is important to earn enough not only to make ends meet, although I know many colleagues have exactly that problem, but to live decently. Speaking up for decent rates is important, I agree, but lowball amateurs (and that's what they are) won't care about what we say. But the responsibility will always lie with us, not with any platform or client to charge a reasonable fee. If I can't do it, I have to find other work. I can't work for 4 Cents for what I do, I just can't. And for colleagues in Europe who live in the EU, I would look into any kind of government support that is out there (even temporarily) or a second job before I provide intellectual work for a pittance. Pursue all avenues. But we all live in harsh realities, even I do.
[Edited at 2016-06-25 05:24 GMT]
| | | | Heinrich Pesch
Finland
Local time: 05:23
Member (2003)
Finnish to German
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| Proz.com is about making money | Jun 27, 2016 |
Those who think that this site should side mainly with translators are wrong. The site is about making money for its owners, and translation agencies pay more than freelance translators. Money rules, folks!
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Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 03:23
Member (2008)
Italian to English
| Not entirely true | Jun 27, 2016 |
Heinrich Pesch wrote:
Those who think that this site should side mainly with translators are wrong. The site is about making money for its owners, and translation agencies pay more than freelance translators. Money rules, folks!
That's a little reductive, I think.
Is your work as a translator "only about making money"?
| | | | dkfmmuc
Local time: 04:23
Member (2009)
German to English
+ ...
| The right idea is: VISUALIZATION | Jun 27, 2016 |
Jared Tabor wrote:
My subject line was too long, here is what it would have been if it could have been:
Assisting translators in setting the rates they want, assisting clients at getting the translations they need, is the right idea
Hi all,
I'm sure no one here needs me to clarify this for them, but here I go!
You set your own rates. Neither ProZ.com nor TM-Town will do that for you. The client won't-- or should not-- do that for you. The translator sets the rate for their work.
Jared
Dear Jared,
honestly spoken this point of view is seeming to be a bit shortsighted. A large site like proz.com is able
to do everything what it takes to promote an industry sector.
The first step would be to change the perception the clients have about translation work and the state of the industry!
You can do everything to visualize the value of the work. It paves the way for many companies when beginning to work/sell in a different market.
Think about two different industries and the value of the translation and localization:
The one and only enduring investment for selling the identical product to a new market is not changing the codes/programming for a game, a software: It is just having an upscale, perfect translation!
The "investments" for PR, marketing are immediately gone after the campaign. But the translation can be used for many weeks or years. Until the next upgrade with new features is delivered.
Similar in the tourism industry: The "hardware" of hotels etc. is not changed for guests of another countries, perfect translations give them immediate market access and a higher perception range. So the hotel has only to make minor adaptations to dietary habits in order to welcome guests and then make a contract with a provider of local tours/sports activities and the corresponding guides.
You could endlessly think about many other industry sectors which wouldn't be successful without the translation, localization or the voice over.
That said the better approach for proz.com would be to be the opinion leader for a high value approach . Not promoting competition by low rates and the "price argument" only. This downwards spiral can be stopped.
If you don't begin to communicate that value approach then the earnings profile of many translators will further deteriorate. And you will have a development like we had in Germany in the food retailing business: Many formerly independent companies were pushed out of the market. Finally a discount and bargain buy mentality emerged.
That said it is nearly the last moment to begin the renaissance of an industry. Communicate the value of translation, how many words a translator could translate per day and that he shouldn't have a remuneration like an unskilled worker. Show how a good translation and customer address would make the difference.
Choose a name for that quality campaign and begin to alter the perceptions.
This is more sustainable like the inevitable "cat content" you show on F*c*b**k:
https://media.giphy.com/media/xT4uQck51Caw74VWDe/giphy.gif
Source: Link on the proz.com site
Hoping that you will rethink the strategy and begin to launch a dedicated campaign
Best regards
Gerd
[Edited at 2016-06-27 09:31 GMT]
| | | | | Excellent post, Bernhard | Jun 27, 2016 |
Great post, Bernhard! I find the following statements to be spot on:
- "There's no reason to give in to lowball offers anywhere."
- "People who think they need to compete on price only hurt themselves in the end. We are all flexible when it comes to pricing, but we don't need to sell ourselves short."
- "I am not too concerned about that competition." (Speaking about the rate range of 3-4 cents)
- "It all comes down to the translators themselves. A translator who is busy working for peanuts will have plenty of problems delivering what he/she promises. I am not worried about that anymore."
- "... one should be able to stick to one's guns. There is no alternative. Only that way can one provide quality service and pursue this as a successful career."
All true!
If it were up to me, Proz.com, focus on expanding the profiles and encourage clients to visit profiles instead of possibly inviting cheap bids.
The perennial skeptics are unlikely to accept this statement at face value, but all we (as staff) ever hope to do, and all we ever work to do, is to bring in more good clients for our paying members. There are no incentives (and only disincentives) for us to appeal to clients who are undesirable to our members.
I quote Bernhard's points because what one finds, as a staff member, is that at the end of the day, it is we who need you to keep up reasonable rates, and not the other way around. So please: know what you need to charge as a translator... and stick to your guns!
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Henry Dotterer wrote:
The perennial skeptics are unlikely to accept this statement at face value, but all we (as staff) ever hope to do, and all we ever work to do, is to bring in more good clients for our paying members. There are no incentives (and only disincentives) for us to appeal to clients who are undesirable to our members.
I quote Bernhard's points because what one finds, as a staff member, is that at the end of the day, it is we who need you to keep up reasonable rates, and not the other way around. So please: know what you need to charge as a translator... and stick to your guns!
And yet nothing has really been done to address the concerns raised by hundreds of ProZ members over the years...
https://proz.uservoice.com/forums/37172-proz-com-ideas/suggestions/624429-putting-a-report-unprofessional-low-rate-button
https://proz.uservoice.com/forums/37455-jobs/suggestions/637715-ethical-rates-fees
https://proz.uservoice.com/forums/37172-proz-com-ideas/suggestions/681731-have-a-bb-for-outsourcers-rates
https://proz.uservoice.com/forums/37172-proz-com-ideas/suggestions/3807165-allow-grading-of-an-outsourcer-s-screening-practic
https://proz.uservoice.com/forums/37455-jobs/suggestions/7127849-create-a-fair-system-to-establish-the-lowest-per-w
https://proz.uservoice.com/forums/37455-jobs/suggestions/4935168-to-eliminate-job-postings-that-are-under-the-minim
https://proz.uservoice.com/forums/37455-jobs/suggestions/2276846-prioritize-agencies-who-offer-reasonable-rates-and
https://proz.uservoice.com/forums/37455-jobs/suggestions/7419169-some-sort-of-disciplinary-measure-to-proz-members
https://proz.uservoice.com/forums/37455-jobs/suggestions/596009-i-would-like-that-only-minimum-decent-rate-jobs-ar
etc. etc.
In addition to the above, I have read countless times about removed LWA ratings that dared mention "unacceptable" rates, and I have experienced firsthand how agencies and end-clients with solid 5 ratings from countless sources actually offer ridiculous rates. So, what are we talking about? How are such policies aimed at "bringing in more good clients for your paying members", exactly?
P.S. Also, specifically about this proposal, while that was declined, it is a fact that translators can set their rates on both ProZ and TM-Town, and the latter actually allows to search based on translators' rates as well, but the opposite is not allowed... So, while "A record of outsourcers by rate may even help to promote those (low) rates as the average", a record of vendors by rate evidently doesn't... Yes, makes perfectly sense...
[Edited at 2016-06-27 19:53 GMT]
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| Totally true! | Jun 27, 2016 |
Heinrich Pesch wrote:
Those who think that this site should side mainly with translators are wrong. The site is about making money for its owners, and translation agencies pay more than freelance translators. Money rules, folks!
The right principles against the harsh reality.
Of course it is all about money, everything in life is about money. Don't like it, but.......
If you pretend to open/run a site for PROFESSIONAL translators, keep it PROFESSIONAL!
For example:
- Don't accept prices under a certain amount (or you can wave goodbye to quality).
- Only accept licensed/educated/experienced translators, not "moonlighters" who happened to have lived for a certain amount of time in a certain country.
- Introduce some kind of proof/control based upon the above.
In short, don't accept each fool that claims to be a (professional) translator. We are (at least I am) educated people, and I hate to see our (free) business being destroyed by a bunch of amateurs, just because they are sitting on "a beach in Goa", or are looking for "some kind of hobby", because their partner is earning enough for the both of them, and they have to stay home with the children. That is the reality!
I am a member of Proz and TM-Town, and although I fear that money is stronger then wisdom, I still urge you to have a look at my advices. If you don't, at the end you could become a site for everyone who can write (well, maybe a bit overexaggerated, but please get my drift).
In this case it is not only our responsibility, but also yours to make and keep both sites a platform for PROFESSIONAL translators. In short, also in your own interest, guard quality!
[Edited at 2016-06-27 20:20 GMT]
[Edited at 2016-06-27 20:21 GMT]
[Edited at 2016-06-27 21:17 GMT]
| | | | | ProZ.com's income comes from translators | Jun 27, 2016 |
Heinrich Pesch wrote:
Those who think that this site should side mainly with translators are wrong. The site is about making money for its owners, and translation agencies pay more than freelance translators. Money rules, folks!
Thanks for using and being a paying member of the site, Heinrich! I understand your logic but you are factually incorrect. ProZ.com's primary customer is the freelance translator. (It's not even close; the ratio of income from translators to income from agencies is in the range of 20-25 to 1.) We have every motivation to have freelance translators do well.
| | | | | So you are saying..... | Jun 27, 2016 |
Henry Dotterer wrote: Heinrich Pesch wrote:
Those who think that this site should side mainly with translators are wrong. The site is about making money for its owners, and translation agencies pay more than freelance translators. Money rules, folks! Thanks for using and being a paying member of the site, Heinrich! I understand your logic but you are factually incorrect. ProZ.com's primary customer is the freelance translator. (It's not even close; the ratio of income from translators to income from agencies is in the range of 20-25 to 1.) We have every motivation to have freelance translators do well.
.... you accept anyone with a fault. (please see my previous thread for more info)
Money?
[Edited at 2016-06-27 20:38 GMT]
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