| Vom Thema belegte Seiten: < [1 2 3] | Low-priced job posted on ProZ.com Initiator des Themas: Lietta Warren-Granato
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DZiW (X)
Ukraine
Englisch > Russisch
+ ...
| abstract cash | Feb 16, 2009 |
A thing is worth the amount people are ready to pay for it.
I see no outrage against public morality here. If you agree with the price then you buy or sell it, if no - then you don't, right? Quite possible that such projects are rather simple yet do for improving students' skills. Almost everything still depends on you. Certainly, it's just my idea
Cheers.
| | | | Arnaud HERVE 
Frankreich
Local time: 03:28
Englisch > Französisch
+ ...
| Abstract world | Feb 16, 2009 |
This is certainly true in an abstract world, devoid of true historical market forces and basic morality.
First, we are in a forum for translators. It can be argued wether it is wise to describe our prices as "whatever the client is willing to pay".
Not everything comes from the market. There are also laws, technical regulations, fiscal nuances... that all come from a political decision. Even the market is a historical political decision, and is maintained only by the w... See more This is certainly true in an abstract world, devoid of true historical market forces and basic morality.
First, we are in a forum for translators. It can be argued wether it is wise to describe our prices as "whatever the client is willing to pay".
Not everything comes from the market. There are also laws, technical regulations, fiscal nuances... that all come from a political decision. Even the market is a historical political decision, and is maintained only by the will of law, public forces and sometimes direct financial help.
The professions who can unite get access to the political decision making, not the emotional debates of elected assemblies that are presented to the wider uneducated public, but the background processes of technocratic decision making, which all serious lobbyists directly aim at.
In this decision making, we are a politic unit, we are not a lobby because we don't have the skills to unite, be we nevertheless have distinct political interests. For instance, it is of our interest that more translations are made compulsory within the European union, and it is only a matter of political will if the translation into "smaller" languages is often neglected, not a result of the "market".
Only the disorganized and politically undereducated professions believe that there is such a thing as the "natural" market. Ask the fishermen in any country if their market is the "natural" result of supply and demand.
Second, describing prices on the market as the confronting interests of the players is certainly true, but granting it an icing of harmony is vastly excessive. I would rather describe this prices process as "The terrible chaos of temporary market forces that works less catastrophically than the terrible chaos of a socialist economy".
When you say "the amount people are ready to pay", I believe that people want to pay nothing at all. And not only the capitalists, but also consumers, and all market forces. In other words, the desired market price for all market forces is 0. Thus we should rather talk of "the amount that people are forced to pay". Even the 1 cent translations are too costly. It is of course better to avoid paying 1 cent.
Thus, the market does not want to pay me. The market is only forced to pay me. If the market could, the market would get equivalent services for free. The market does not want to grant everybody a fair price. The market wants to stop paying everybody. The market wants to have plenty of clients and no suppliers.
And I believe that, even if I showed no skill AT ALL, I would still retain enough dignity to be granted basic food, shelter, clothes.
I stop here because I would be too long. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Kevin Lossner
Portugal
Local time: 02:28
Deutsch > Englisch
+ ...
| Open Choice Translation: join the crusade | Feb 16, 2009 |
Arnaud HERVE wrote:
Only the disorganized and politically undereducated professions believe that there is such a thing as the "natural" market....
...
When you say "the amount people are ready to pay", I believe that people want to pay nothing at all. And not only the capitalists, but also consumers, and all market forces. In other words, the desired market price for all market forces is 0.
As usual, you are right, Arnaud. Being a great believer in markets, I have decided to start a crusade for Open Choice Translation, in which nothing is demanded for a translation and the client pays whatever s/he feels like, nothing if that is what that "market force" wishes to pay. As you know, we all value things more as we pay less for them
Won't you join me in this crusade? Even if it is not remunerative, it will surely be dignified.
| | | | A. Deb
Spanien
Local time: 03:28
Mitglied
Spanisch > Englisch
+ ...
| Where will it end?! | Feb 16, 2009 |
Hi everyone
I must confess, I don't normally participate in any of the forums but the job Mihaela mentions is just the last straw. Why bother paying us? We might as well just work for free. I personally am appalled at some of the rates I've been offered recently. I'm even more disturbed by the fact that many of those doing the offering are huge multinationals, which I imagine are in need of good quality translations. When I started out as a translator over 13 years ago, I can sa... See more Hi everyone
I must confess, I don't normally participate in any of the forums but the job Mihaela mentions is just the last straw. Why bother paying us? We might as well just work for free. I personally am appalled at some of the rates I've been offered recently. I'm even more disturbed by the fact that many of those doing the offering are huge multinationals, which I imagine are in need of good quality translations. When I started out as a translator over 13 years ago, I can safely say that my rates were 80% higher than the "next to nothing" being offered by many (including the recent job posting mentioned). However, I am fortunate enough to have some great clients which enables me to decline (far more politely than I would wish) these ridiculous offers.
I do feel very frustrated by the devaluation of and lack of respect for our profession and am beginning to wish I'd studied plumbing (no offense to plumbers being intended at all).
Thanks for listening. My spleen has been vented.
[Edited at 2009-02-16 16:29 GMT]
[Edited at 2009-02-16 16:30 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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Kevin Lossner
Portugal
Local time: 02:28
Deutsch > Englisch
+ ...
| Starting over | Feb 16, 2009 |
Anaviva wrote:
I do feel very frustrated by the devaluation of and lack of respect for our profession and am beginning to wish I'd studied plumbing (no offense to plumbers being intended at all).
It's never too late to start something new. Plumbing is a necessary and honorable profession, and it ensures that jobs like this one which outrage so many will flow smoothly downhill.
And you can take a tax deduction on your education in the new field... just tell the tax office that you are learning it as a new translation specialty.
| | | | A. Deb
Spanien
Local time: 03:28
Mitglied
Spanisch > Englisch
+ ...
| Sounds increasingly tempting! | Feb 16, 2009 |
Thanks Kevin. The idea is certainly becoming more appealling!
| | | | | No wonder... | Feb 16, 2009 |
Excertpted from a job posted today on Proz:
I have a file from XXX into YYY, this job was already assigned but i am afraid that the translator does not deliver the job, the file has 2400 words and i need it back within 16 hours
The price per word is .02 USD
Please do not send any e-mails if you are not willing to do the job.
No wonder that the translator who got this job assigned, in the meantime found something more rewarding to do with their time.
| | | | Laurent KRAULAND (X)
Frankreich
Local time: 03:28
Französisch > Deutsch
+ ...
| Gimme imaginary numbers... | Feb 16, 2009 |
Arnaud HERVE wrote:
When you say "the amount people are ready to pay", I believe that people want to pay nothing at all. And not only the capitalists, but also consumers, and all market forces. In other words, the desired market price for all market forces is 0. Thus we should rather talk of "the amount that people are forced to pay". Even the 1 cent translations are too costly. It is of course better to avoid paying 1 cent.
and show me how I can implement them in my accounting system!
As a personnel manager put it some years ago: "A company makes a maximum profit when it is shut down!" Kinda interesting idea(s) for sustainable growth.:)
Laurent K.
[Edited at 2009-02-16 19:19 GMT]
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