| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5] > | 0.07USD a word: Where does this sit, really?! Thread poster: Inspectress (X)
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Roni_S 
Slovakia
Local time: 07:34
Slovak to English
| My point was | Sep 29, 2015 |
that everything is relative, not that translation is or should be a minimum wage job. I was simply pointing out that things are NOT the same everywhere, and I was making a comparison in respect of Michael's comment that minimum wage for a full-time job in Germany is around €1,500. Even the AVERAGE full-time salary in the largest city in Slovakia is not much above €1,100. There are doctors here who don't make €1,000.
The only thing that's sad is that this is reality in many parts of E... See more that everything is relative, not that translation is or should be a minimum wage job. I was simply pointing out that things are NOT the same everywhere, and I was making a comparison in respect of Michael's comment that minimum wage for a full-time job in Germany is around €1,500. Even the AVERAGE full-time salary in the largest city in Slovakia is not much above €1,100. There are doctors here who don't make €1,000.
The only thing that's sad is that this is reality in many parts of Europe.
For the record, the last time I worked for minimum wage was a part-time job in high school, many moons ago when the minimum hourly wage in the US was less than $2 and I could fill my tank for .60/gallon. My direct clients pay decent, livable rates (my rates) for good quality, but there are many in this country who are not so lucky. Things really need to be viewed in the proper perspective. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Minimum wage | Sep 29, 2015 |
Please don't take comparisons with a minimum wage out of context, no translator is working for a minimum wage and nobody said that, why the fuss?
Most of these rants about low rates come 90 % of the time from translators who live in rich or so called "developed countries", who till this moment fail or refuse to understand that in some countries these low rates are not so low taking into the account living costs, high unemployment rates and other factors.
| | | | | If you translate into Irish you have to pay Irish house prices | Sep 29, 2015 |
and if you translate into German you have to pay German/Austrian/Swiss rents to get a roof over your head, unless you are an expat somewhere else. That's why people from these countries complain if they can't make enough money to pay for the cost of living in their countries of residence. If they only make 800 EUR they have to stop immediately, because you need 1500 EUR to live in Germany. It costs 500 EUR to rent a single room in Munich, Germany and 1500 EUR to rent a 60 m2 appartment, etc. May... See more and if you translate into German you have to pay German/Austrian/Swiss rents to get a roof over your head, unless you are an expat somewhere else. That's why people from these countries complain if they can't make enough money to pay for the cost of living in their countries of residence. If they only make 800 EUR they have to stop immediately, because you need 1500 EUR to live in Germany. It costs 500 EUR to rent a single room in Munich, Germany and 1500 EUR to rent a 60 m2 appartment, etc. Maybe people living in poorer countries don't know this. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 06:34
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
| It's worse than sad | Sep 29, 2015 |
Gabriele Demuth wrote: englishpartner wrote: Inga has a very good point. Not that I am encouraging translators to accept insultingly low rates, but as an example if you compare Inga's calculations of .02 per source word to the current minimum wage for a full-time job in Slovakia - which is 380 euros - then I think it's a no-brainer for most anyone. Sorry, but location does count, and not only in real estate  It is sad to read such comments! Why do translators keep comparing themselves with minimum wage labourers? Anything more than minimum wage is good then?
So the current minimum wage in Slovakia is EUR 380? So what? So someone who left school without any qualifications and started work in unskilled jobs - maybe cleaning, or filling shop shelves, or assembling parts on a production line - gets to take home EUR 380. What does that have to do with being a translator?
And how much do these unskilled workers get to spend of that sum? I imagine their sickness benefits, maternity leave, pension, redundancy benefits and many other benefits are covered? And if they need some skill they are sent on a training course, all expenses paid. Maybe they even get free coffee and maybe even free/subsidised lunch thrown in. All this is usual for employees. In fact do they have any job-related expenses at all apart from personal income tax (which few adults avoid) and maybe some travel costs? No - they get to choose what to do with the lot.
How much would a freelancer have to spend on themselves out of that same amount? We have to pay for all those things listed above out of that paltry sum (personally, I pay €164 per month social security contributions, regardless of how much - or little - I earn). But that's nowhere near all that a freelancer has to pay for. Add to that hardware and software, books, professional memberships, accountancy services (often obligatory), consumables, CPD costs, insurance, Internet connection, conference attendance... the list is endless, and costly.
So please, at the very least let's double the rate to account for the fact that we are NOT unskilled labourers, and double it again for self-employment. That might, possibly, give a figure that's just about acceptable for a beginner freelance translator. You'd need to double it again for a successful one with an established business.
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Roni_S
Slovakia
Local time: 07:34
Slovak to English
This was precisely my point. Everything is relative to your particular situation.
| | | | | We ARE professionals | Sep 29, 2015 |
Sheila Wilson wrote:
So please, at the very least let's double the rate to account for the fact that we are NOT unskilled labourers, and double it again for self-employment. That might, possibly, give a figure that's just about acceptable for a beginner freelance translator. You'd need to double it again for a successful one with an established business.
I don't expect any uthopy about rates, I know it's impossible.
Of course, the SALARY we expect may depend on our particular situation, that's right. But a professional is always a professional, and should earn what a professional does, not less.
At least we must be aware of our responsibility in lowering the bar, which goes in detriment of our colleagues and ourselves.
[Edited at 2015-09-29 16:13 GMT]
| | | | Jeff Whittaker
United States
Local time: 01:34
Spanish to English
+ ...
| Sheila is right | Sep 29, 2015 |
Each month I have to pay $700 for income and social security tax and then another $500 for health insurance (that does not include a $6,000 annual out-of-pocket deductible). So $1200.00 per month is gone before I even start to pay a mortgage, electricity, food, water, car payment, gas, etc.
[Edited at 2015-09-29 17:14 GMT]
| | | | | those less equal than others | Sep 29, 2015 |
Sheila Wilson wrote:
So the current minimum wage in Slovakia is EUR 380? So what? So someone who left school without any qualifications and started work in unskilled jobs - maybe cleaning, or filling shop shelves, or assembling parts on a production line - gets to take home EUR 380.
Shameful stuff, shameful. Nothing else worth adding.
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Inga Petkelyte
Portugal
Local time: 06:34
Lithuanian to Portuguese
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I knew this would come.
Pointing out that translators don’t need to take jobs with minimal salary.
We can be sad, we can lament such comparisons, we can think translating is not supposed to be this or that but ‘please get down to the earth. Any of the “plenty jobs with a basic salary” (Romix) available in the labour market WILL BE the lowest paid job.
What other jobs for translators do you have in mind? What about their realistic, not hypothetical, availability?
B... See more I knew this would come.
Pointing out that translators don’t need to take jobs with minimal salary.
We can be sad, we can lament such comparisons, we can think translating is not supposed to be this or that but ‘please get down to the earth. Any of the “plenty jobs with a basic salary” (Romix) available in the labour market WILL BE the lowest paid job.
What other jobs for translators do you have in mind? What about their realistic, not hypothetical, availability?
By the way, those disliking the comparison with the minimal salary – do you have a better landmark for the purpose? Let me know, we will use it here in the forums.
Will the average salary suit you better?
But then we cannot speak of “any of the plenty jobs with a basic salary” – somehow some of the commenters missed the reason of the applied comparison and rushed into their personal judgement.
However, even comparing with an average income, there are still 8 countries (out of 28) in the EU where 0,02 eur per word makes you better off than earning an average salary.
Couple examples from job offers: translator/copywriter 435 euros/month, translator/PA 600 euros, translator in the office 1 eur/hour (in one of the aforementioned countries).
Right… As you wished – we are not talking about the minimal salary. Yet the previous maths still persist.
Another point, after a quick screening prospects for translators in Spain:
Sworn translator, at least 4 years of experience: 1.200-1.500 euros bruto/month.
With 0,03-0,04 eur/word the final net amount is the same.
Another example from Spain: to a vacancy for Spanish-German, 97 canditaes have applied so far. One of them will be lucky. What are realistic alternatives for the other 96? What are thir chances to get a reasonably paid job? Job at all with the actual unemployment rates?
Still I think translators in Spain are fortunate: one can find vacancies with up to 21.000 euros bruto/year available.
Let’s look now at Portugal – Sheila, with all my admiration, I can’t agree with you this time and the info below is specially for you, as it shows the net income of skilled professionals:
http://portalinho.com/246/valores-liquidos-salarios-2015-por-setor-de-actividade/
Here it goes the myth of someone who left school without any qualifications and started work in unskilled jobs - maybe cleaning, or filling shop shelves, or assembling parts on a production line… 0,04 eur/word in translation makes as much per month as a lawyer in a mid-size firm with 2 to 5 years of experience. And that's a pretty high earnings in comparison with others.
And no...
Sheila Wilson wrote:
So the current minimum wage in Slovakia is EUR 380? So what? So someone .... gets to take home EUR 380.
No. They don't take EUR 380 home - yet IRS and social contributions are to be deducted from that amount. So every extra penny makes a difference.
No. Not only unskilled workers bring home just several hundred euros per month. Teachers take home below 1000, doctors - slightly above 1000 euros (an EU-country statistics, average). It's not their fault that the local economy is so grim.
So maybe it's about time to stop blaming, shaming and calling unprofessional our own peers that happen to live in different realities. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Jeff Whittaker
United States
Local time: 01:34
Spanish to English
+ ...
| Good news: the U.S. has just revalued its currency | Oct 2, 2015 |
so translators in the U.S. can now charge 0.001 reais and 0.001 euros per word and earn what used to be $80.000 in the U.S.
Translators in Brazil, Mexico, India and Portugal are asked to please lower their rates accordingly.
Oh, you can't pay your bills on 0.001 a word. Sorry, it's globalization. We can live like kings in the U.S. on 0.001 cents a word, so why should we charge Brazil or China more money?
Point is: People in countries who can survive on low... See more so translators in the U.S. can now charge 0.001 reais and 0.001 euros per word and earn what used to be $80.000 in the U.S.
Translators in Brazil, Mexico, India and Portugal are asked to please lower their rates accordingly.
Oh, you can't pay your bills on 0.001 a word. Sorry, it's globalization. We can live like kings in the U.S. on 0.001 cents a word, so why should we charge Brazil or China more money?
Point is: People in countries who can survive on low rates would be just as upset if the situation were reversed. ▲ Collapse
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We all know that this is a complex issue. However, it does not change the fact that quality translation work is often worth much more.
End clients pay much more and many agencies, especially in Western Europe, US, Canada, etc. are able to pay more and would pay more, but too many translators meekly "accept" the rate that is thrown at them, no matter how low it is. The problem is that they accept such low rates as normal and/or don't know that they are being tak... See more We all know that this is a complex issue. However, it does not change the fact that quality translation work is often worth much more.
End clients pay much more and many agencies, especially in Western Europe, US, Canada, etc. are able to pay more and would pay more, but too many translators meekly "accept" the rate that is thrown at them, no matter how low it is. The problem is that they accept such low rates as normal and/or don't know that they are being taken for a ride.
Would you still charge USD 0.02 per word if you knew that the end client is paying USD 0.30? Or would you try to negotiate?
[Edited at 2015-10-02 17:52 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | How refreshing | Oct 2, 2015 |
Richard Purdom wrote:
Shameful stuff, shameful. Nothing else worth adding.
I too wish that all countries were equal with the same GNP/head as Luxembourg.
Wage leveling from board comrade members to shop-floor workers is part of an attractive theory for a better world and all that, but it seems difficult to implement on a large population without casualties. Maybe because not everybody are created equal, even when they were born free and equal in rights. Which is fortunate in my view, because life would be very boring otherwise.
Anyway. This post, as I understood it, was about making a distinction between unqualified employees earning the minimum wage and self-employed translators, who for the most part do have qualifications and don't have the benefits that go with employment.
I don't see anything shameful in that, but you have the right to think otherwise.
About the low/high/boo/depends issue, basically I think that translators who work into languages from poor or emerging countries earn an income in line with that country's buying power for a similar job level wherever they are based, and translators who work into languages from rich or developed countries will earn an income in line with that country's buying power for a similar job level wherever they are based.
And then there are languages that are spoken in many countries spanning a broad spectrum of wealth (to-English, to-Spanish, to-French and maybe to-Portuguese), so rates also span a broader interval.
And for comparisons attempts, in countries that have a decent public welfare and tax system, earning an gross income of twice a given wage leads to a comparable buying power.
Let each and everyone of us earn as much as they can. Amen.
Philippe
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| Exploitation? No thank you. | Oct 2, 2015 |
Philippe Etienne wrote:
About the low/high/boo/depends issue, basically I think that translators who work into languages from poor or emerging countries earn an income in line with that country's buying power for a similar job level wherever they are based, and translators who work into languages from rich or developed countries will earn an income in line with that country's buying power for a similar job level wherever they are based.
I disagree. First of all, many companies or end clients in general try to expand in/reach various markets/audiences, and these companies/end clients often are located in developed countries. Unfortunately, many times jobs that could have gone directly to a translator are sifted through middlemen and end up with that translator who IS WILLING to work for inadequate rates (inadequate in many regards - buying power of the end client, inadequate with regard to running his/her own successful business). The proof is in the job boards all over the internet where people find translators so they can callously and blatantly sell (to use a nice word) their cheap translation jobs back to the end client. USD or EUR 0.02 - 0.05/word is not an adequate rate anywhere, period/full stop. Just don't do it. You're not doing yourself any favors. The less you work for, the bigger the chance that you're not even going to get paid. And yes, the Proz.com translation rate page is a place any newbie should visit to get a grip on what they should at least charge.
No professional will get caught up in the low-ball market. If you were thinking about it, then let my comments push you in the opposite direction.
http://search.proz.com/employers/rates
Example:
English to Lithuanian:
Standard: $0.11/wd
Minimum $0.08/wd
Standard per hour: $39.72/hr
Minimum per hour per hour $28.03/hr
Sample size:118
Philippe Etienne wrote:
Let each and everyone of us earn as much as they can. Amen.
Let's not give anyone a reason to exploit translators.
PS: Be it 100% or fuzzy word discounts or post-MT-"editing jobs" that the low-ball end of the market demands from individual translators, the trend is becoming more ridiculous every year. I can only surmise that any educated person who becomes a translator will want to stay away from it because it's becoming way too obvious that working under those terms is simply ridiculous. So, the more ridiculous the demands, the sooner people will realize what's going on. The good ones will not fall for it and eventually (not yet tomorrow), the whole nasty business will hopefully end because the only thing it will really produce is rubbish. So, go on low-ballers, lower your bar even more.
[Edited at 2015-10-03 01:54 GMT]
| | | | Edith Kelly
Switzerland
Local time: 07:34
Member
German to English
+ ...
| Some "colleagues" accept 0.02 cents/word | Oct 3, 2015 |
as long as so-called translators work for just anything, agencies will pay the person offering the lowest rate. Gaelic: I got an inquiry (Irish) Gaelic>German (also an unusual combination)- please quote your very best rate - and gave a quotation reflecting the unusual combination and the fact that I live in Switzerland, a high-cost country.
Answer: we found several top-notch "colleagues" with this language pair working for next to nothing. Who are they? Certainly not professional transla... See more as long as so-called translators work for just anything, agencies will pay the person offering the lowest rate. Gaelic: I got an inquiry (Irish) Gaelic>German (also an unusual combination)- please quote your very best rate - and gave a quotation reflecting the unusual combination and the fact that I live in Switzerland, a high-cost country.
Answer: we found several top-notch "colleagues" with this language pair working for next to nothing. Who are they? Certainly not professional translators. Chancers? Retirees who are bored and do a bit of translations work during the night when age prevents them from sleeping? Hobby linguists? ▲ Collapse
| | | | Inspectress (X)
Ireland
Local time: 06:34
English to Irish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | What rate did you quote? | Oct 3, 2015 |
EdithK wrote:
as long as so-called translators work for just anything, agencies will pay the person offering the lowest rate. Gaelic: I got an inquiry (Irish) Gaelic>German (also an unusual combination)- please quote your very best rate - and gave a quotation reflecting the unusual combination and the fact that I live in Switzerland, a high-cost country.
Answer: we found several top-notch "colleagues" with this language pair working for next to nothing. Who are they? Certainly not professional translators. Chancers? Retirees who are bored and do a bit of translations work during the night when age prevents them from sleeping? Hobby linguists?
What rate did you quote?
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