Job posting paying low rate

On 2002-12-20 08:21, Lemster wrote:

Screaming at others, and accusing them won\'t help you at all. Distinguishing yourself on the basis of the work you do will. Marketing your services in a professional way will (including details in your profile could be a starting point).



I have no problem with head-on competition, or with tough criticism, but please stop flaming other members. This community is built on a spirit of mutual respect and cooperation.



The ProZ.com Forums Rules of Etiquette expressly prohibit personal attacks on others - for good reasons. I have notified Henry of your post and have asked him to edit it accordingly.



Go like a \"raporteur\" we say in France, how old are you? I am free to say what I want and I have say nothing wrong only the true and in my profil I write what I want,you are not my father so stop.I you want to censure me do it,but the facts are there works at 0.03usd/word and people taking them and killing the translation world. ▲ Collapse

On 2002-12-20 15:28, Lemster wrote:

You\'re free to say what you think, but that freedom ends where you start personal attacks on others. This isn\'t called censure, but civilisation.





Try to see it from a different perspective: if you find it difficult to pay your bills from your translation income (which appears to be the case, judging from your previous posting...), there may be other reasons...?

[ This Message was edited byn2002-12-20 15:35]



It is only a question of solidarity.

here in Spain we say PAN PARA HOY HAMBRE PARA MAÑANA ▲ Collapse

Only a few things, here in Spain, not in Germany, I pay each month this ADSL 48 euros, telephone 70 euros,electricity 35 euros, water 16 euros, taxes to be a fre lance the minimun is 240 euros, a flat 2 bedrooms 400 euros,if I want to buy one 130.000 euros so YOU AND PEOPLE LIKE YOU ARE THE RESPONSABLE IF I NEED TO WORK MORE AND MORE BECAUSE RATE ARE EVERY DAY LOWER,YOU KILL THE TRANSLATION WORD.

I AM VERY ANGRY AND ONE DAY I CAN BE HUNGRY TOO BECAUSE HERE IN MY COUNTRY ALL IS MORE EXPENSIVE.





Go cry me a river, man... I pay $2000 for mine (shared, luckily, with my SO). Only London boy and I can really play the living expenses game here ▲ Collapse

On 2003-01-04 10:25, Lemster wrote:

Remember that ProZ is built on mutual tolerance and respect. As I pointed out earlier in this thread, that\'s exactly the reason why one\'s personal freedom ends where shouting at others begins.



The same applies to telling people \"not to write anything\". And any generalisation about \"ugly Americans\" (your words - certainly not mine) is set to backfire if the person you\'re trying to attack has a Dutch name...



I have the impression that here to be from Germany or other german country is a passe-partout to attack everybody but the other can not say anything.she laught of Ampuria but that is not an attack why? because Ampuria is Spaniard? ok great democracy here.

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I have the impression that here to be from Germany or other german country is a passe-partout to attack everybody but the other can not say anything.



Now that\'s an interesting twist, isn\'t it? \'Fraid it isn\'t so... if you classify the Netherlands as \"another German country\", you may need to revisit history.



There is a difference between irony and a personal attack. I don\'t necessarily agree with Laura\'s statement either: the problem of living expenses is to be seen in relation to your income, not in absolute terms - nobody is actually forcing you to live in London or downtown SF. But that doesn\'t give me or you the right to denounce Americans in a general way. You can criticise a person on the merits of his/her actions or statements, but we should be very careful about generalisation. Who is it going to be next time? Arabs? Asians? Black people? That is the reason why I asked you to restrain yourself. TBH your posting left a lot of angles to attack you on, but I chose not to - ask yourself why. ▲ Collapse

On 2002-12-13 00:13, Nikita Kobrin wrote:

Yes, and my minimum rate at the moment is $0.03 per word. But:

1) It is really my MINIMUM rate and I reject any offers with lower rates.

2) At this rate I translate the most primitive texts (e.g. a VERY simple private letter). For more sophisticated texts my price is higher.

And even working at so low rates I can\'t say that I have too many orders. None via ProZ so far. I would be happy to rise my rates but where are orders? And who would feed me when I have high rates and nothing to do?

Any PRACTICAL suggestions would be highly appreciated. No pure theorization please.

Sincerely,

Nikita Kobrin

MA in Begging





Hi Nikita,



That\'s funny because I just adressed that issue in the French forum.



First, living in Lituania, I suspect you can afford a better living at 0.03 then a French guy would at 0.07, so I would definitely not put you in the so-called beggar category.



You demanded a practical solution. Here you go. There is a big lie on the market, and understanding it will probably help you:



People are made to believe that the number of orders one receives is mainly related to \"how cheap\" one is. It isn\'t. There is your lie number 1.



Think about it. The price doesn\'t get you clients, it is all promotion. In your post you say:



\"even working at so low rates I can\'t say that I have too many orders\", assuming that you would get less orders if you were quoting higher rates.



Of course, clients have a general idea of what goes on the market, and I\'m not advising you to ask a dollar per word. Your customer would feel (rightly) cheated.



But providing that your rates are somewhat consistent with the rest of the industry for the language pair you are in - all the better if \"upper end\" - marketing higher rates may get you more clients.



The real matter is that you could offer translation for free and have no clients, if no one knew about it, and on the other end, crank your promotion/marketing through the roof and get swarmed by orders at a good rate.



In all cases, you will find that the effort to get a client at 0.06 (which I guess is kind of good for your language pair) is hardly more then finding one at 0.03.



Now practically speaking, don\'t start off by calling up your current clients to tell them you double. No. Keep accepting what you usually accept, not to loose anything that is keeping you going.



But start marketing yourself for your new rates. Market, market market. Customers are a matter of volume of adequate promotion and contacts, not prices. When you start getting along fine with your higher rates, you won\'t mind giving a miss to the cheap charlies.*



I would like to tell you an actual story that make an other point. Please bear in mind that this is an actual story, not a fairy tale.



One of my father\'s friend was a painter, and a fine day, he got to present his works in an rather good art gallery, along with other painters.



He was good too, and people would stop by to look at his stand, praise him, inquire about the price, move off to the next guy on the line, and buy there.



There he was, in the middle of the afternoon, two hours before the closing time, and still had not sold a single painting. Of course, he figured his prices were scaring off the customers. After all, 400 $ a piece is some money. So he took a break and went to check out the prices at the nearby stands, wondering how cheap these guys were going at, to sell that many paintings. Guess what: Bottom rate was 2500$



By that time, he had 1H30 left. He promptly went back, added a \"0\" at the back of all his prices... and sold 3 paintings before closing time.



Obviously, his price wasn\'t right for the segment market he was targeting.



Your rates are cheap. Are you sure that making it lower would increase the number of clients? Or are you loosing clients because, no matter what, a cheap translator is a bad one in a client\'s mind.



*[Actually, this is gradual. You are at 0.03, so raising at 0.05 will be an improvement, but by the time you feel comfortable with 0.05, you may realize this is still low.]

[ This Message was edited by:on2003-01-31 03:05] ▲ Collapse