| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15] > | Off topic: How do you think UK leaving EU would affect our profession? Thread poster: Balasubramaniam L.
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| English is not in any imminent danger | Jun 16, 2016 |
believe me, as long as there is Hollywood, video games and music. Of course Shakespeare, too, but I am not sure how many people actually understand him these days. A great writer.
| | | | | monolingual idea - then the question in general | Jun 16, 2016 |
Balasubramaniam L. wrote:
Yes, there are many such countries, Canada, NewZealand, Australia, etc. but unlike the EU, they are all mostly mono-lingual, and don't generate much translation work into English. It is the other way for them, that is they need to translated from English to other languages.
Canada should definitely be taken out of that list. It is very officially, and very heavily, bilingual. All official things and a lot of not so official things are in both French and English. Translation as a profession enjoys a rather high status over here.
For the broader question: I cannot see the UK's leaving EU affecting my work. Within Canada I'm translating the certificates, transcripts etc. of people from other people obtaining citizenship etc. and this will not change. Then there are companies doing business with other companies abroad, who want to know what those companies' documents say. Outside Canada there are all kinds of negotiations, interactions, scientific studies and whatnot constantly happening between people and businesses and institutions writing in different languages. These things have very little if anything to do with Britain's place in the European Union.
I can't see how it would affect my work in my profession (French and German into English).
| | | | | Other scenario | Jun 16, 2016 |
I had a talk with the editor-in-chief of the only political radio network in Holland about this subject, and she told me, that even in case of a Brexit, not a lot would change for us translators, because there would be a enough of ongoing treaties, both the UK and the rest of Europe are forming one part, whatever the outcome, we need each other, so work there will be.
This is another insight. I hope she is right.
@Thomas
"What is not a matter of opinion is... See more I had a talk with the editor-in-chief of the only political radio network in Holland about this subject, and she told me, that even in case of a Brexit, not a lot would change for us translators, because there would be a enough of ongoing treaties, both the UK and the rest of Europe are forming one part, whatever the outcome, we need each other, so work there will be.
This is another insight. I hope she is right.
@Thomas
"What is not a matter of opinion is the massive unemployment and economic chaos across southern Europe and the euro's part in it. But that's just about the single currency."
Get your facts right. The EU brought them a lot, but if they can't "literally and figuratively" get their fingers out of the tilt (= corruption/self enrichment), selling pure lies, don't levy taxes and flow on national feelings of superiority, it is bound to go wrong.
@ Maxi
Good for you.
[Edited at 2016-06-16 21:56 GMT]
[Edited at 2016-06-16 21:57 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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Robert Rietvelt wrote:
"What is not a matter of opinion is the massive unemployment and economic chaos across southern Europe and the euro's part in it. But that's just about the single currency."
Get your facts right. The EU brought them a lot, but if they can't "literally and figuratively" get their fingers out of the tilt (= corruption/self enrichment), selling pure lies, don't levy taxes and flow on national feelings of superiority, it is bound to go wrong.
There is nothing wrong with the facts I mentioned.
This should not become a political debate, but if you read documentation produced by highly estimated economists, such as for example "The Rotten Heart of Europe" by Bernard Connolly, a former high-ranking EU official, you will find a lot of technical explanations why a single currency cannot work without a single political government. That book was published in 1995.
The euro chaos has evolved much like he predicted. The euro is a political project not based on sound economics, and that's why it's falling apart. Countries have different ways of doing things, and when you force as different countries as Germany, Greece, France, etc. into one and the same currency, it is bound to go wrong, as they cannot make the adjustments they need to survive. Well, it can work if you create one common government and permanent fiscal transfers from rich to poor countries. I just don't see that happening in the real world, so the euro will go on floundering until it breaks up sooner or later.
If they all behaved like Germans, there wouldn't be a problem, but the Italians, French and many others don't, and why should they? The irony is that it was François Mitterrand who insisted on forcing Germany into the euro as a condition for approving German reunification. The aim was to prevent German domination. And now France and the rest of southern Europe are sinking under the rigidities of the German-dominated euro. I'm not expressing any political opinion about this, simply recounting what happened.
I can assure you France is levying taxes. Too many in my opinion.
The French will be French, the Germans Germans. We know about these differences. We can trade and work together, but the tragedy is that the euro is tearing half the EU to pieces for no other purpose than imposing the United States of Europe on us, and it may well end up causing further damage on the entire EU project.
Anyway, we’re veering off-topic. We should open another topic if you want to take this further.
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| insignificantly | Jun 17, 2016 |
Even if the UK votes to officiallly leave the EU and the British government then really and decisively acts in accordance with the referendum and the UK does not revert to membership in the EFTA (!), I still don't think it would have much relevance. The UK only really has one foot in the EU anyway: It is not a party to the Schengen Treaty and has negotiated special treatment for itself in all kinds of areas. I think that a lot of people also forget how closely integrated Switzerland and Norway a... See more Even if the UK votes to officiallly leave the EU and the British government then really and decisively acts in accordance with the referendum and the UK does not revert to membership in the EFTA (!), I still don't think it would have much relevance. The UK only really has one foot in the EU anyway: It is not a party to the Schengen Treaty and has negotiated special treatment for itself in all kinds of areas. I think that a lot of people also forget how closely integrated Switzerland and Norway are within the European economy, even though they are not members of the EU.
As others have already said, English is unlikely to cease to be one of the big three languages in the EU (English, French, and German), because it is a well-established lingua franca throughout Europe. Because of Ireland, English will also automatically continue to be an official language of the EU. And I certainly can't imagine that my clients from the art world are going to stop using English as a lingua franca just because the UK leaves the EU.
If the UK distances itself from the rest of Europe in a very sudden and extreme form, then I could imagine it might have negative consequences for the British economy and those translators who are heavily dependent on its well-being. However, even if the referendum passes, I would guess that the transition will be drawn-out and take a moderate form.
An afterthought: Exchange rates are very important for lots of freelancers and I would guess that the UK leaving the EU would probably hit the British pound much harder than the euro and hurt both against the American dollar (at least until November) and against genuinely healthy currencies. That also seems likely to happen much more quickly than any political changes. So I suppose that would actually present a short-term advantage for UK freelancers/agencies working with international clients. I feel sorry for the Swiss though, who get punished for doing things right.
[Edited at 2016-06-17 07:05 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | The big matter | Jun 17, 2016 |
What makes the EU an uninteresting territory for economy in general is excess of legislation, and not only in terms of EU legislation, but also in the general trend to overlegislate and churn out thousands of new acts and regulations every year in every EU country, especially those that have regional parliaments like the UK, Germany, or Spain.
In a global world, it is pretty irrelevant whether the UK is or not part of the EU: what would be decisive for the UK's (or any other country... See more What makes the EU an uninteresting territory for economy in general is excess of legislation, and not only in terms of EU legislation, but also in the general trend to overlegislate and churn out thousands of new acts and regulations every year in every EU country, especially those that have regional parliaments like the UK, Germany, or Spain.
In a global world, it is pretty irrelevant whether the UK is or not part of the EU: what would be decisive for the UK's (or any other country's) future is their capability to start reducing legislation and reducing the oversized state brought about by the EU. Inside or outside of the EU, this is the key matter.
Clearly, EU officials should rethink this whole model of huge state and squeezed citizens, or the UK will not be the only country to leave. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 02:19
Member (2008)
Italian to English
| Cameron's referendum | Jun 17, 2016 |
The UK is having a referendum on remain/leave the EU for one reason: David Cameron promised it a year ago before the last General Election, in an attempt to outflank the anti-EU party UKIP and to prevent his own Conservative Party from splitting (about 30% of Conservative MPs are anti-EU).
There is no other reason.
This is Cameron's referendum and he has called it for narrow party-political reasons. I consider this to have been a grossly irresponsible act that has emb... See more The UK is having a referendum on remain/leave the EU for one reason: David Cameron promised it a year ago before the last General Election, in an attempt to outflank the anti-EU party UKIP and to prevent his own Conservative Party from splitting (about 30% of Conservative MPs are anti-EU).
There is no other reason.
This is Cameron's referendum and he has called it for narrow party-political reasons. I consider this to have been a grossly irresponsible act that has embroiled the whole country, indeed the whole EU, in a completely unnecessary upheaval.
The UK has been a full Member of the EU for 40 years. I can see no reason to change that. There are pros and cons but to make the EU better through reform, it is important to remain. You cannot make any club or association better by walking away from it or trying to break it up, unless you have a political agenda to just break things up, for other reasons.
If the extreme Right wins next Thursday and the UK leaves the EU, this would not create linguistic difficulties for translators but it certainly would create administrative difficulties due to the loss of existing reciprocal agreements on bank transfers, taxation, VAT, etc. Then there would be practical difficulties with travel, customs, the loss of reciprocal healthcare arrangements, transferable pensions, etc. All existing inter-state agreements would have to be individually renegotiated one by one. What would be the point of that when we already have agreements?
For myself, I shall begin making full use of my Irish citizenship. Ireland is a full Member of the EU and has no intention of leaving.
[Edited at 2016-06-17 08:44 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Sheila Wilson 
Spain
Local time: 02:19
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
| There might be more work between EU and US | Jun 17, 2016 |
Obama has already said that the US would favour deals with the EU over dealing with "little ol' England". The UK would be small fry and simply not worth the bother in many cases. So maybe there would be a small increase in translations between American English and the EU languages. I agree that it's unlikely to affect the market for the English language unduly. That has importance above and beyond membership of the EU.
But Brexit would have far-reaching consequences for the UK and ... See more Obama has already said that the US would favour deals with the EU over dealing with "little ol' England". The UK would be small fry and simply not worth the bother in many cases. So maybe there would be a small increase in translations between American English and the EU languages. I agree that it's unlikely to affect the market for the English language unduly. That has importance above and beyond membership of the EU.
But Brexit would have far-reaching consequences for the UK and its citizens. As Tom says, this whole thing came about just because of a rash promise by one man. And what was planned for 2017, giving plenty of time for studies and discussions, suddenly became a panic to put a cross in a box when both sides are giving mainly "Don't know" answers to fundamental questions.
I don't go along with comparisons to Norway. They decided immediately it wasn't for them. Since then, they've been paying vast amounts in to have access to the EU markets, without the power of veto etc. OTOH, the UK will be putting a right royal finger (or two fingers, I suppose) up to the EU. Will the EU say "We're still friends. You can share our market." or will they refuse to play ball? And will UK taxpayers agree to pay what Norway is paying? I doubt it. ▲ Collapse
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Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 02:19
Member (2008)
Italian to English
| Huw Watkins
United Kingdom
Local time: 02:19
Member (2005)
Italian to English
+ ...
| Financially speaking | Jun 17, 2016 |
This, which will likely be very dramatic in the event of Brexit (it's already happening as polls come out showing Leavateers coming out ahead):
Michael Wetzel wrote:
An afterthought: Exchange rates are very important for lots of freelancers and I would guess that the UK leaving the EU would probably hit the British pound much harder than the euro and hurt both against the American dollar (at least until November) and against genuinely healthy currencies. That also seems likely to happen much more quickly than any political changes. So I suppose that would actually present a short-term advantage for UK freelancers/agencies working with international clients. I feel sorry for the Swiss though, who get punished for doing things right.
[Edited at 2016-06-17 07:05 GMT]
will likely counteract this:
Tom in London wrote:
...and the UK leaves the EU, this would not create linguistic difficulties for translators but it certainly would create administrative difficulties due to the loss of existing reciprocal agreements on bank transfers, taxation, VAT, etc.
At least in the short term. In the long term, as ever, the banks stand to gain and we Brits may be somewhat out of pocket, especially if the leave campaigners prove to be right and the UK ends up being a more buoyant economy on it's own. The pound goes back up again and we lose out with exchange rates and increased bank charges, plus, lets face it, agencies insisting we also pay their bank fees as nowhere else in Europe has them...
[Edited at 2016-06-17 09:11 GMT]
| | | | Helen Hagon
Local time: 02:19
Member (2011)
Russian to English
+ ...
| Languages will still need translating | Jun 17, 2016 |
There are so many myths circulating about the wonderful things that will happen if we leave the EU, and many people are willing to believe them and vote on that basis. So far I have heard people saying that leaving will save the monarchy, protect our currency, solve the refugee crisis, eradicate crime and (my personal favourite) put an end to football hooliganism. As a reasonably intelligent British person I find this all quite frightening and can only hope that enough people are capable of seei... See more There are so many myths circulating about the wonderful things that will happen if we leave the EU, and many people are willing to believe them and vote on that basis. So far I have heard people saying that leaving will save the monarchy, protect our currency, solve the refugee crisis, eradicate crime and (my personal favourite) put an end to football hooliganism. As a reasonably intelligent British person I find this all quite frightening and can only hope that enough people are capable of seeing through the rumours and forming a judgement based on reality.
As far as translation is concerned, of course the English language will continue to exist. However, the demand for translations would most likely be affected to a certain extent by any changes in trading relationships between the UK and EU countries. But maybe there would be a positive impact on trade with non-EU countries. I'm no business expert, so I'll leave the speculation to others who know more about that. I expect that my own fields of expertise - literature, religion, arts and humanities - will be relatively unaffected.
The aspect which is most likely to affect me personally is exchange rates and the cost of living. Arguably I may be in a better position than some, as my customers generally pay in Euro or US Dollars rather than pounds, but the uncertainty is still quite unnerving. Also travelling to EU countries may become more difficult and involve more documentation and hoops to jump through.
The truth is, though, that no-one really knows for sure what would happen if we leave the EU. There is plenty of speculation, but the only way we will find out for definite is if it actually happens. Then we will jump in at the deep end and either sink or swim. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Huw Watkins
United Kingdom
Local time: 02:19
Member (2005)
Italian to English
+ ...
| On a slightly lighter note | Jun 17, 2016 |
Sheila Wilson wrote:
Obama has already said that the US would favour deals with the EU over dealing with "little ol' England". The UK would be small fry and simply not worth the bother in many cases. So maybe there would be a small increase in translations between American English and the EU languages. I agree that it's unlikely to affect the market for the English language unduly. That has importance above and beyond membership of the EU.
But Brexit would have far-reaching consequences for the UK and its citizens. As Tom says, this whole thing came about just because of a rash promise by one man. And what was planned for 2017, giving plenty of time for studies and discussions, suddenly became a panic to put a cross in a box when both sides are giving mainly "Don't know" answers to fundamental questions.
I don't go along with comparisons to Norway. They decided immediately it wasn't for them. Since then, they've been paying vast amounts in to have access to the EU markets, without the power of veto etc. OTOH, the UK will be putting a right royal finger (or two fingers, I suppose) up to the EU. Will the EU say "We're still friends. You can share our market." or will they refuse to play ball? And will UK taxpayers agree to pay what Norway is paying? I doubt it.
If we do end up going isolationist as Obama is predicting, perhaps we'll forge new relations with other isolationists such as Russia, ergo my wife becomes incredibly busy and I sit back, feet up watching the rugby and playing with our daughter...
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Angela Malik
United Kingdom
Local time: 02:19
German to English
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| "Grossly irresponsible" | Jun 17, 2016 |
Tom in London wrote:
This is Cameron's referendum and he has called it for narrow party-political reasons. I consider this to have been a grossly irresponsible act that has embroiled the whole country, indeed the whole EU, in a completely unnecessary upheaval.
Absolutely 100% agree.
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 02:19
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Angela Rimmer wrote: Tom in London wrote:
This is Cameron's referendum and he has called it for narrow party-political reasons. I consider this to have been a grossly irresponsible act that has embroiled the whole country, indeed the whole EU, in a completely unnecessary upheaval.
Absolutely 100% agree.
....and which many tend to think was a factor in yesterday's tragic murder of an MP
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/16/mood-ugly-mp-dead-jo-cox
| | | | | Your opinion, but … | Jun 17, 2016 |
Tom in London wrote:
grossly irresponsible act that has embroiled the whole country, indeed the whole EU, in a completely unnecessary upheaval.
That's a matter of opinion, and I respect yours. But if you look across the EU, you'll see anti-EU sentiments growing, not least in France. Just for other reasons. If it wasn't the UK, then it would be another country – sooner or later. And don't forget that the upheaval isn't a result of Britons being more 'awkward' than others but of such things as overruling referendum results (Lisbon Treaty) and causing economic stagnation, mass unemployment and crisis throughout much of the EU. Even in Germany, discontent is growing. The UK or not, the EU is in upheaval already, and it has caused it itself.
Tom in London wrote:
There are pros and cons but to make the EU better through reform, it is important to remain. You cannot make any club or association better by walking away from it or trying to break it up, unless you have a political agenda to just break things up, for other reasons.
In principle, you are right, but I just don't think the EU can be reformed. There are just too many vested interests and privileges to change anything of importance. EU reform has been debated ad nauseam, but what we get is window dressing while yet more regulations are spewed up. If it’s possible to reform, then why aren’t they already reforming? Sometimes, things are just so screwed up it’s better to start afresh.
Tom in London wrote:
If … the UK leaves the EU, this would not create linguistic difficulties for translators but it certainly would create administrative difficulties due to the loss of existing reciprocal agreements on bank transfers, taxation, VAT, etc. Then there would be practical difficulties with travel, customs, the loss of reciprocal healthcare arrangements, transferable pensions, etc. All existing inter-state agreements would have to be individually renegotiated one by one. What would be the point of that when we already have agreements?
As the UK is not a Eurozone member, I fail to see how bank transfers would be affected. Bank transfers in and out of the UK already cost an arm and a leg, the reason being greedy British banks.
The EU is not concerned with taxation at all (except VAT). Bilateral agreements on double taxation are outside the scope of the EU. Leaving the EU will change nothing on that front.
Why would you renegotiate all bilateral agreements?
As for the rest, and a lot more, yes, negotiations would be needed to sort things out, but the UK will probably end up with something like the Norwegian or Swiss model and thus remain in the Single Market while staying outside the political parts.
Whatever happens, it will be for (most of) the British people to decide.
[Edited at 2016-06-17 11:49 GMT]
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