| Vom Thema belegte Seiten: [1 2 3 4 5] > | Abusing the "homework/test question" option Initiator des Themas: Catherine Bolton
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Catherine Bolton 
Local time: 19:16
Italienisch > Englisch
+ ...
In stillem Gedenken
I've pondered this all day and have decided to post, also because a fellow Prozian - but a newbie - wrote to ask me what I thought of this abuse.
In the Italian>English SC, today someone posted about 15 questions (lost count) with the proviso "homework/test question", as if that EXCUSES abuse of the kudoz system.
Several of us posted comments to the asker (who did not respond) and others blithely went ahead and answered.
Getting a moderator involved is not the answer, methinks,... See more I've pondered this all day and have decided to post, also because a fellow Prozian - but a newbie - wrote to ask me what I thought of this abuse.
In the Italian>English SC, today someone posted about 15 questions (lost count) with the proviso "homework/test question", as if that EXCUSES abuse of the kudoz system.
Several of us posted comments to the asker (who did not respond) and others blithely went ahead and answered.
Getting a moderator involved is not the answer, methinks, because a mod can certainly squash the questions, but this does not nip the problem in the bud.
To me, the option of citing "homework/test question" simply opens the entire system to such abuse.
I thought we were supposed to be... uhm... pros. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Amy Taylor
Vereinigte Staaten
Local time: 11:16
Italienisch > Englisch
| Defnitely abuse of KudoZ | Jun 2, 2004 |
I actually thought the "homework/test" option made it even worse! I can envision a situation in which an unlucky professional ends up with a document that is insanely problematic and for which that person is in desperate need of a great deal of help over a short period. But the asker in question here is clearly not up to the task posed by the translation test s/he has undertaken.
Frankly I was amazed that other pros continued to answer the questions. Unless the agency that commissi... See more I actually thought the "homework/test" option made it even worse! I can envision a situation in which an unlucky professional ends up with a document that is insanely problematic and for which that person is in desperate need of a great deal of help over a short period. But the asker in question here is clearly not up to the task posed by the translation test s/he has undertaken.
Frankly I was amazed that other pros continued to answer the questions. Unless the agency that commissioned this test happens to check the KudoZ, they would be led to believe that this person had completed this translation, at least in large part, under his/her own steam. The person may be starting out, and we're all happy to help, but "outsourcing" a test whole scale, and for free at that, is dishonest in my opinion. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Henk Peelen
Niederlande
Local time: 19:16
Mitglied (2003)
Deutsch > Niederländisch
+ ...
SITE LOCALIZER | What's the problem? The number of questions or the homework / test option? | Jun 2, 2004 |
The asker surely don't need to be a pro. I thought the homework / test option was invented to preserve the ability to ask less urgent questions while simultaneously ' warn' the pros this question might be less urgent / serious than most other questions, so they can stay away if they should want to do so.
fifteen in a row is quite a lot for this category; it maight compass all the homework respectively a great part of the test.
Just my two cents. I hope they are worth a penny
| | | | Catherine Bolton
Local time: 19:16
Italienisch > Englisch
+ ...
THEMENSTARTER In stillem Gedenken
The problem is dishonesty. If you're not capable of doing the job, don't take on the test.
This was clearly not homework and looks like a tourism website.
And it involved things like simple sentences (subject-verb-object) that the asker couldn't figure out.
I've got no problem with some student trying to figure out how to say Merry Christmas in Aramaic (OK, we've been influenced by Mel Gibson), but I DO have a problem with people who, ultimately, are taking work away from peopl... See more The problem is dishonesty. If you're not capable of doing the job, don't take on the test.
This was clearly not homework and looks like a tourism website.
And it involved things like simple sentences (subject-verb-object) that the asker couldn't figure out.
I've got no problem with some student trying to figure out how to say Merry Christmas in Aramaic (OK, we've been influenced by Mel Gibson), but I DO have a problem with people who, ultimately, are taking work away from people who are qualified to do the job and might even be looking for that foot in the door.
This option leaves this particular door WIDE open to such abuse.
One query? Two? OK, no problem. But a dozen means you don't know what the h... you're doing.
[Edited at 2004-06-02 18:40]
[Edited at 2004-06-02 18:41] ▲ Collapse
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Steffen Pollex (X)
Local time: 19:16
Englisch > Deutsch
+ ...
Henk Peelen wrote:
What's the problem...?
| | | | Steffen Pollex (X)
Local time: 19:16
Englisch > Deutsch
+ ...
| The opposite is the case, | Jun 2, 2004 |
if you think it over:
cbolton wrote:
The problem is dishonesty.
[Edited at 2004-06-02 18:40]
Wasn't it quite HONEST by the asker he indicated that the question was from a test?
Wouldn't it have been DISHONEST, indeed, he had NOT done so?
I don't see logical thinking in your posting, just kind of frustration, based on whatever...
Who forces you to answer to these questions ot to even pay attention?
[Edited at 2004-06-02 18:45]
| | | | Mats Wiman
Schweden
Local time: 19:16
Mitglied (2000)
Deutsch > Schwedisch
+ ...
In stillem Gedenken | Questions only offer an opportunity to suggest answers | Jun 2, 2004 |
Dear Amy and cbolton,
It none of no one's business how or for what the asker uses the answers s/he gets.
No not assume anything abour the asker (or the answerers). Focus only on the question!
The 'homework' alert is meant to warn off those linguists who consider themselves too august to answer simple questions.
Also: Please remember the golden KudoZ rule:
It you do not like a question: Skip it!
Discla... See more Dear Amy and cbolton,
It none of no one's business how or for what the asker uses the answers s/he gets.
No not assume anything abour the asker (or the answerers). Focus only on the question!
The 'homework' alert is meant to warn off those linguists who consider themselves too august to answer simple questions.
Also: Please remember the golden KudoZ rule:
It you do not like a question: Skip it!
Disclaimer:
I am a moderator. Please therefore do not assume that my comment is authorized by the site owner or sanctioned by my fellow moderators. I am only commenting as a passionate KudoZ participant.
Best regards
Mats J C Wiman
Übersetzer/Translator/Traducteur/Traductor > swe
http://www.MatsWiman.com
http://www.Deutsch-Schwedisch.com
http://www.proz.com/pro/1749
(Proz.com moderator, deu>swe, Swedish)
Träsk 201
SE-872 97 Skog
Schweden/Sweden/Suède/Suecia
Tel:+46-612-54112 Fax:+46-612-54181 Mobile:+46-70-5769797 ▲ Collapse
| | | | Catherine Bolton
Local time: 19:16
Italienisch > Englisch
+ ...
THEMENSTARTER In stillem Gedenken
I'm not sure you see my point. Is the "test" option intended to mean that you can post an entire test, line by line, so others can do it for you?
Moreover, I'd like to point out that a NEW Prozian contacted me privately because she did not want to raise hackles with a posting, precisely because of comments like "frustration or whatever". So I'd appreciate it if you leave things like that out, as they are not germane to the issue.
What IS to the point is the professionalism of the Pro... See more I'm not sure you see my point. Is the "test" option intended to mean that you can post an entire test, line by line, so others can do it for you?
Moreover, I'd like to point out that a NEW Prozian contacted me privately because she did not want to raise hackles with a posting, precisely because of comments like "frustration or whatever". So I'd appreciate it if you leave things like that out, as they are not germane to the issue.
What IS to the point is the professionalism of the Proz, which happens to be important to me. The test option seems to be a great loophole.
[Edited at 2004-06-02 18:50] ▲ Collapse
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Mats Wiman
Schweden
Local time: 19:16
Mitglied (2000)
Deutsch > Schwedisch
+ ...
In stillem Gedenken | KudoZ = Professionals and other members offer term help | Jun 2, 2004 |
cbolton wrote:
What IS to the point of the professionalism of the ProZ
The point is simply that professionals assist professionals AND the people that are developing into professionals, the so-called non-professionals with term help.
That is called dynamic improvement for all or KudoZ
Mats
Disclaimer:
I am a moderator. Please therefore do not assume that my comment is authorized by the site owner or sanctioned by my fellow moderators. I am only commenting as a passionate KudoZ participant.
[Edited at 2004-06-02 19:05]
| | | | Rosa Maria Duenas Rios (X)
Local time: 13:16
| There will always be a few trying to take advantage | Jun 2, 2004 |
[quote]cbolton wrote:
I'm not sure you see my point. Is the "test" option intended to mean that you can post an entire test, line by line, so others can do it for you?
Moreover, I'd like to point out that a NEW Prozian contacted me privately because she did not want to raise hackles with a posting, precisely because of comments like "frustration or whatever". So I'd appreciate it if you leave things like that out, as they are not germane to the issue.
What IS to the point is the professionalism of the Proz, which happens to be important to me. The test option seems to be a great loophole.
[Unquote]
The same situation happens from time to time in the English-Spanish forum, except that the "abusers" do not even bother to use the "test/homework" option. They just keep shooting questions until... fellow Prozians suggest they should consider other alternatives, or until a moderator is alerted, and he or she contacts the person privately and explains the rules (which I believe are no more than 10 questions per day). In my experience, this peer pressure from other translators and moderators is what has finally worked to deter the "abusers" from their practices; and eliminating the "homework/Test" option would not solve the problem, since there will always be a few trying to take advantage of the whole system.
[Edited at 2004-06-02 20:34]
| | | | Henk Peelen
Niederlande
Local time: 19:16
Mitglied (2003)
Deutsch > Niederländisch
+ ...
SITE LOCALIZER | Irrespective of the subject, trying to limit the number of questions might work | Jun 2, 2004 |
Whether the field be law, tech, poetry, homework or whatever, in the English or German to NL language pairs, we ask the asker if s/he asks about 10 questions in a row, to limit the number of questions for today and / or to consider to post a job.
If the content of the questions makes it likely that Kudoz is abused anyway, most of time the asker is softly criticized anyway.
Solves all problems, I think.
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IanW (X)
Local time: 19:16
Deutsch > Englisch
+ ...
| The golden KudoZ rule | Jun 2, 2004 |
[quote]Mats Wiman wrote:
Also: Please remember the golden KudoZ rule:
It you do not like a question: Skip it!
This is not the "golden KudoZ rule", it is purely the "Mats Wiman Golden Rule", one which gets dusted off and paraded any time anyone complains about abuses of the system.
(I've said it before and I'll say it again: I reckon there should be a new option – alongside the “Reply with Quote” option – called “Reply with vehement defence of the status quo” for certain members who react in the same blinkered way to any suggestion of making things better.)
If you ask me, the golden KudoZ rule should be "Respect your colleagues". And that means not wasting their time by trying to trick them into doing all your work for them.
Behind you all the way, Catherine!
[Edited at 2004-06-02 19:12]
[Edited at 2004-06-02 19:18]
| | | | Catherine Bolton
Local time: 19:16
Italienisch > Englisch
+ ...
THEMENSTARTER In stillem Gedenken
Henk,
Who "suggests" to these folks that these folks are abusing the system? In our specific case, a number of us tried to do that, to no avail!
In our case, no moderator stepped in, but it's also a national holiday and we can't expect mods to be responsible around the clock.
Perhaps the "test" option should be limited to only a few questions per day.
| | | | Kirill Semenov
Ukraine
Local time: 20:16
Mitglied (2004)
Englisch > Russisch
+ ...
My respect, Ian
[quote]Ian Winick wrote:
Mats Wiman wrote:
Also: Please remember the golden KudoZ rule:
It you do not like a question: Skip it!
This is not the "golden KudoZ rule", it is purely the "Mats Wiman Golden Rule", one which gets dusted off and paraded any time anyone complains about abuses of the system.
[Edited at 2004-06-02 19:12]
[Edited at 2004-06-02 19:18]
I'm all against this line of permissiveness in kudoZ. We should not do all the work for some of out "colleagues" nor have we suffer from their endless demands for help which more than often leave us even without this simple and human "thank you". I know with doubt that there are people who use proZ as a kind of "answering machine" which allows to do any job better. In this way we do help our fellow translators, we just do their work for them, and this is disgusting.
| | | | | Vom Thema belegte Seiten: [1 2 3 4 5] > | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » Abusing the "homework/test question" option | LinguaCore |
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