Mar 5, 2013 20:42
11 yrs ago
1 viewer *
Deutsch term
erschwerte Haft
Deutsch > Englisch
Rechts- und Patentwesen
Recht (allgemein)
Criminal Law
Personen [...] können mit zehnjähriger erschwerter Haft belegt werden [...].
From a human rights report on conscientious objection.
Aggravated imprisonment? Can't find a thing.
From a human rights report on conscientious objection.
Aggravated imprisonment? Can't find a thing.
Proposed translations
(Englisch)
References
What it involves | philgoddard |
Proposed translations
+3
5 Min.
Selected
aggravated prison conditions
my guess for starters...
or "detention conditions"
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Note added at 13 mins (2013-03-05 20:55:25 GMT)
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"hard imprisonment" might fit in this context
or "detention conditions"
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Note added at 13 mins (2013-03-05 20:55:25 GMT)
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"hard imprisonment" might fit in this context
Note from asker:
I quite like your initial answer, that sounds the most familiar. |
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Johanna Timm, PhD
: "aggravated imprisonment" http://tiny.cc/vzrhtw ; Turkey: http://www.mit.gov.tr/eng/kanun.html
29 Min.
|
agree |
Kim Metzger
: Aggravated imprisonment http://tinyurl.com/ahqa7cl
47 Min.
|
neutral |
Lancashireman
: Persons can be sentenced to ten years of "aggravated prison conditions"?
4 Stunden
|
agree |
Dagdelen
: also good
15 Stunden
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
+4
15 Min.
imprisonment with restriction of privileges
this is what occurred to me, more context & nationality would be useful
Note from asker:
conscientious objectors in turkey |
Peer comment(s):
agree |
philgoddard
: In some ways I think this is better than "aggravated" which, while it does mean "make more serious", is usually associated with the offense rather than the punishment.
18 Min.
|
agree |
Lancashireman
: This is what it means.
2 Stunden
|
agree |
Frosty
: Indeed – all privileges that may be 'routinely' granted to a prisoner are restricted/withdrawn, the sentence to be served under the hardest/strictest of conditions.
5 Stunden
|
agree |
Ramey Rieger (X)
: including no possibility of parole.
11 Stunden
|
-3
17 Min.
Difficult prison term
In context, this is about a ten-year long difficult prison term
Peer comment(s):
disagree |
Kim Metzger
: Hardly the term of art.
24 Min.
|
disagree |
AllegroTrans
: I would think any prison term would be difficult in Turkey; your phrase doesn't appear to state anything
12 Stunden
|
disagree |
Carmen Lawrence
: 'difficult' is rather subjective, no?
1 Tag 16 Stunden
|
+5
50 Min.
aggravated imprisonment
58. In its decision of 16 January 2010, BVerfG, 2 BvR 2299/09, the Federal Constitutional Court considered an extradition case where the offender faced “aggravated life imprisonment until death” (erschwerte lebenslängliche Freiheitsstrafe bis zum Tod) in Turkey. The German government had sought assurances that he would be considered for release and had received the reply that the President of Turkey had the power to remit sentences on grounds of chronic illness, disability, or old age. The court refused to allow extradition, finding that this power of release offered only a vague hope of release and was thus insufficient. Notwithstanding the need to respect foreign legal orders, if someone had no practical prospect of release such a sentence would be cruel and degrading (grausam und erniedrigend) and would infringe the requirements of human dignity provided for in Article 1.
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Johanna Timm, PhD
: cp my agree to Jonathan's suggestion above.
1 Stunde
|
agree |
Kim Metzger
1 Stunde
|
agree |
AllegroTrans
: according to the Wiki entry it means 30 years in Turkey
11 Stunden
|
agree |
Dagdelen
15 Stunden
|
agree |
Harald Moelzer (medical-translator)
1 Tag 13 Stunden
|
neutral |
Lancashireman
: This is a translation of a Turkish term via German. This is why it sounds translated. EN aggravated: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/aggravated Why would the Turkish legislators wish their penal system to be associated with such a descriptor?
1 Tag 16 Stunden
|
-1
1 Stunde
confinement (or detention) under aggravating circumstances
a crime is aggravated, e.g. aggravated felony,
circumstances are aggravating ( or mitigating) as the case may be.
circumstances are aggravating ( or mitigating) as the case may be.
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
Charles Milton Ling
: I would choose incarceration.
1 Tag 17 Min.
|
disagree |
Carmen Lawrence
: Imprisonment is indeed aggravating, I would suspect.
1 Tag 15 Stunden
|
neutral |
Lancashireman
: Looks like Carmen is having doubts about the suitability of 'aggravated'.
1 Tag 15 Stunden
|
+2
2 Stunden
heavy imprisonment
Only because I found the reference indicated below.
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Lancashireman
: This is one occasion on which we really need Salih’s help to translate the Turkish word ‘ağır’: tough, heavy, rigorous, severe?
15 Min.
|
agree |
Haluk Erkan
: We use "ağır hapis cezası" (=heavy imprisonment) and not "ağırlaştırlımış hapis cezası".
1 Tag 17 Stunden
|
4 Stunden
solitary confinement and no possibility of parole
The two main components of this type of punishment in Turkey seem to be a) the prisoner is held in solitary confinement and b) there is no possibiloity to apply for parole and parole must not be granted. The other conditions are less dominant in the specific character of this punishment. I would propose to use a descriptive phrase that encapsules the main characteristics (and those that make this type of punishment so objectionable in Germany).
Reference:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strafvollzugsrecht_(T%C3%BCrkei)
http://www.18maerz.de/web/media/files/ein-brief-aus-dem-tekirdag
+1
5 Stunden
tightened imprisonment
... may be sentenced to ten years of tightened imprisonment
or:
... could face ten years of toughened imprisonment conditions
etc..
Example from link below:
"In initial reactions, the Israeli prison administration tightened imprisonment conditions."
or:
... could face ten years of toughened imprisonment conditions
etc..
Example from link below:
"In initial reactions, the Israeli prison administration tightened imprisonment conditions."
22 Min.
rigorous imprisonment
Multiple web references in connection with Turkey.
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Note added at 31 mins (2013-03-05 21:14:18 GMT)
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Turkey
ANTI-TERROR LAW
Article 5. Penalties of imprisonment and fines imposed according to the respective laws for those committing crimes as described in Articles 3 and 4 above shall be increased by one half. In doing so the penalties may exceed the maximum penalty for that or any other crime. However, in the case of rigorous imprisonment the penalty may not exceed 36 years’, in case of ordinary imprisonment 25 years’, and in case of light imprisonment 10 years’ imprisonment.
https://www.unodc.org/tldb/showDocument.do?lng=en&documentUi...
Sounds slightly weird in EN, but this appears to be the 'official' translation.
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Note added at 40 mins (2013-03-05 21:22:31 GMT)
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Dr Timm's reference: Egypt
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Note added at 1 hr (2013-03-05 22:09:05 GMT)
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Kim Metzger's reference: Egypt
Phil Goddard's reference: Wikipedia
Agree with your comment in Discussion Box. 'Aggravated' sounds arbitrary and pernicious - hardly the sort of adjective that a government or legal system would wish to be associated with.
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Note added at 14 hrs (2013-03-06 11:27:43 GMT)
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Hi Albert
The source is the United Nations. The language isn't brilliant, but neither are any of the sources for 'aggravated' or 'heavy'. Incidentally, that isn't a typo in the headline but a transcription error from scanning or the like. Anyway, I think you would be better off using one of the expanded, descriptive versions.
AJS
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Note added at 14 hrs (2013-03-06 11:41:23 GMT)
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It might be interesting to post this as a German-Turkish question, to get the back-translation, and then to repost it as Turkish to English. I think a lot of contributors here are under the impression that the German translation (i.e. using a past participle) is authoritative.
UN? EU? Both equally likely to produce authentic or unauthentic EN.
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Note added at 23 hrs (2013-03-06 20:33:16 GMT)
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Hi Albert
It appears that the Turkish speakers recognise both ‘ağırlaştırılmış hapis cezası’ and ‘ağır hapis cezası’ as legitimate wordings of the court sentence. Interestingly, when you google “10 yıl ağır hapis cezası” (whole phrase), you get 193,000 hits compared to just nine for “10 yıl ağırlaştırılmış hapis cezası”. Consequently, this would suggest that you need a translation of the adjective form ağır (schwer) rather than the past participle (-ed) / comparative (-er) form ağırlaştırılmış. Which of course brings hard, heavy, rigorous, arduous etc back into contention.
NB The above research is provided willingly and with no expectation of KudoZ success. I realise that you will probably wish to single out for reward the earliest reply (essentially agreeing with what you had already rejected) that has attracted four endorsements under the ‘most helpful’ criterion.
AJS
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Note added at 1 day16 hrs (2013-03-07 13:21:37 GMT)
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Amended/alternative proposal:
penal servitude
http://www.nedirnedemek.com/ağır-hapis-cezası-nedir-ağır-hap...
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Note added at 5 days (2013-03-11 11:51:30 GMT)
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Hi Albert
I am receiving automatically generated e-mails from the system asking me to close the parallel question: http://www.proz.com/kudoz/german_to_turkish/law_general/5127...
It would clearly be presumptuous of me to do so without seeing what the 'correct' answer is here (ağır/schwer/heavy or ağırlaştırılmış/erschwert/heavified).
Will you be closing this question yourself - using the 'most helpful criterion, however you choose to interpret that - or leaving it to the robot at the end of the fortnight?
Regards
AJS
PS: I have had another look at the UN text which you describe as being of "poor quality". Unfortunately, I cannot concur.
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Note added at 12 days (2013-03-18 01:28:57 GMT)
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Hello there,
This question will close automatically on Tuesday. The KudoZ robot will automatically award the points to 'aggravated imprisonment' which is currently on +5. To quote your own words when you launched this enquiry: "Aggravated imprisonment? Can't find a thing." The leading answer found an example that you could easily have found yourself by googling the phrase in double quote marks. You will in the meantime have received several automatically generated requests to close this question yourself and provide feedback. I certainly have for the parallel question. So what was the solution you chose? Was it indeed 'aggravated imprisonment', and was it the double intervention of Dr Timm that convinced you. Or was it Kim Metzger's Irish find?
Regards
AJS
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Note added at 31 mins (2013-03-05 21:14:18 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Turkey
ANTI-TERROR LAW
Article 5. Penalties of imprisonment and fines imposed according to the respective laws for those committing crimes as described in Articles 3 and 4 above shall be increased by one half. In doing so the penalties may exceed the maximum penalty for that or any other crime. However, in the case of rigorous imprisonment the penalty may not exceed 36 years’, in case of ordinary imprisonment 25 years’, and in case of light imprisonment 10 years’ imprisonment.
https://www.unodc.org/tldb/showDocument.do?lng=en&documentUi...
Sounds slightly weird in EN, but this appears to be the 'official' translation.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 40 mins (2013-03-05 21:22:31 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Dr Timm's reference: Egypt
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2013-03-05 22:09:05 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Kim Metzger's reference: Egypt
Phil Goddard's reference: Wikipedia
Agree with your comment in Discussion Box. 'Aggravated' sounds arbitrary and pernicious - hardly the sort of adjective that a government or legal system would wish to be associated with.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 14 hrs (2013-03-06 11:27:43 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Hi Albert
The source is the United Nations. The language isn't brilliant, but neither are any of the sources for 'aggravated' or 'heavy'. Incidentally, that isn't a typo in the headline but a transcription error from scanning or the like. Anyway, I think you would be better off using one of the expanded, descriptive versions.
AJS
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 14 hrs (2013-03-06 11:41:23 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
It might be interesting to post this as a German-Turkish question, to get the back-translation, and then to repost it as Turkish to English. I think a lot of contributors here are under the impression that the German translation (i.e. using a past participle) is authoritative.
UN? EU? Both equally likely to produce authentic or unauthentic EN.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 23 hrs (2013-03-06 20:33:16 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Hi Albert
It appears that the Turkish speakers recognise both ‘ağırlaştırılmış hapis cezası’ and ‘ağır hapis cezası’ as legitimate wordings of the court sentence. Interestingly, when you google “10 yıl ağır hapis cezası” (whole phrase), you get 193,000 hits compared to just nine for “10 yıl ağırlaştırılmış hapis cezası”. Consequently, this would suggest that you need a translation of the adjective form ağır (schwer) rather than the past participle (-ed) / comparative (-er) form ağırlaştırılmış. Which of course brings hard, heavy, rigorous, arduous etc back into contention.
NB The above research is provided willingly and with no expectation of KudoZ success. I realise that you will probably wish to single out for reward the earliest reply (essentially agreeing with what you had already rejected) that has attracted four endorsements under the ‘most helpful’ criterion.
AJS
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day16 hrs (2013-03-07 13:21:37 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Amended/alternative proposal:
penal servitude
http://www.nedirnedemek.com/ağır-hapis-cezası-nedir-ağır-hap...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 days (2013-03-11 11:51:30 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Hi Albert
I am receiving automatically generated e-mails from the system asking me to close the parallel question: http://www.proz.com/kudoz/german_to_turkish/law_general/5127...
It would clearly be presumptuous of me to do so without seeing what the 'correct' answer is here (ağır/schwer/heavy or ağırlaştırılmış/erschwert/heavified).
Will you be closing this question yourself - using the 'most helpful criterion, however you choose to interpret that - or leaving it to the robot at the end of the fortnight?
Regards
AJS
PS: I have had another look at the UN text which you describe as being of "poor quality". Unfortunately, I cannot concur.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 12 days (2013-03-18 01:28:57 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Hello there,
This question will close automatically on Tuesday. The KudoZ robot will automatically award the points to 'aggravated imprisonment' which is currently on +5. To quote your own words when you launched this enquiry: "Aggravated imprisonment? Can't find a thing." The leading answer found an example that you could easily have found yourself by googling the phrase in double quote marks. You will in the meantime have received several automatically generated requests to close this question yourself and provide feedback. I certainly have for the parallel question. So what was the solution you chose? Was it indeed 'aggravated imprisonment', and was it the double intervention of Dr Timm that convinced you. Or was it Kim Metzger's Irish find?
Regards
AJS
Note from asker:
I think the language of your link is of poor quality and there is a typo in the heading. The internet is patient sometimes! But thanks for the research. |
The UN is not a linguistic authority (EU websites on the other hand are in my opinion) and I am not a fan of the UN anyway. |
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
Kim Metzger
: Reference: Irish journalist http://patrickmacmanus.wordpress.com/page/38/
2 Stunden
|
Hi Kim. The case for 'aggravated' is looking less and less convincing. Even Carmen seems embarrassed by the description. // I think Albert is leaving this to the robot. The Irish journalist's version is to be selected on the basis of votes from Kim et al.
|
Reference comments
33 Min.
Reference:
What it involves
.
Peer comments on this reference comment:
agree |
Kim Metzger
: So no hard labour in Turkey, it seems.
24 Min.
|
I think I'd rather do hard labour than stare at the wall!
|
Discussion
http://ob.nubati.net/wiki/Background_to_the_Legal_System#The...
Suggested translation for ağır hapis cezası: penal servitude
"ağırlaştırılmış" is surely the past participle of the verb "ağırlaştırmak" and it means making something more difficult or even "weighted". Just like the German term "erschwert". But here it means "tightened" or "aggravated", but not "weighted".
Actually they should have used the word "zorlaştırılmış" (=made more difficult). But the people have chosen the other one.
By the way if the word were "ağırlaştırılmış müebbet hapis ("aggravated life imprisonment" ~ "erschwerte lebenslange Haftstrafe) then it would mean that the prisoner can never come outside, no remission of punishment, no pardon, no amnesty, no mercy, nothing (=lifetime sentence).
Cheers,
Rasim
http://www.proz.com/kudoz/german_to_turkish/law_general/5127...
:)
In Turkey, people say tightened (ağırlaştırılmış) imprisonment, the term " ağırlaştırılmış" means quietly the same like "erschwert"; i.e. it should be good enough, if you would do a word-precise translation of German-Term "erschwert". (imho)
I hope it helps.