| Vom Thema belegte Seiten: < [1 2 3] | How many freebies can you give to a regular client? Initiator des Themas: Ines Burrell
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| How about... | Aug 11, 2009 |
Why don't you politely announce to your client that, due to the fact that you are very busy at the moment, you have decided to take reviewing/proofreading off your roster of services? Announce that you are concentrating your activities on translation alone. This will help you avoid both the unpleasant discussions and having to let them go. They will most likely even get the message ("she knows we've been abusing her and she will take it no more").
Look, I know you want to stick with... See more Why don't you politely announce to your client that, due to the fact that you are very busy at the moment, you have decided to take reviewing/proofreading off your roster of services? Announce that you are concentrating your activities on translation alone. This will help you avoid both the unpleasant discussions and having to let them go. They will most likely even get the message ("she knows we've been abusing her and she will take it no more").
Look, I know you want to stick with them for lack of a better choice, but your wanting to stick with them is what got you into this uncomfortable position in the first place. If you really need to work with them, do as I say above--but let them go as soon as you find greener pastures. It is precisely because there are people willing to sustain such abusive agencies that they exist. These agencies depend on people like you. Take these people away, and soon, they cease to exist. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Ines Burrell 
Vereinigtes Königreich
Local time: 17:03
Mitglied (2004)
Englisch > Lettisch
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THEMENSTARTER | Client did not agree with my price | Aug 11, 2009 |
I have politely explained to the client that they have mixed up my rates and I cannot do it for this price, they asked for my price, I told them and they said it is too much. I think I did it diplomatically enough and I really hope I will not have to do it again, however should the same problem arise again I think I will just have a honest talk with them. Thank you all for advice.
Ines
| | | | | I was thinking the same thing | Aug 11, 2009 |
Burrell wrote:
Actually this thread is a good example why I do not post much on Proz. There is always a contingent of smug translators who never read the original or additional posts and jump on you like a pack of wolves. That is not why I post a question here in the first place. I honestly do not know in what world you angry guys live but when a client has earned you tens of thousands of pounds and asks for a favour, you what - tell him to go and stuff himself?? And actually my baker does give me freebies, quite often and that is because I am a good client. I even get free bits of meat added to my order at butchers because I am a good client. And I manage to negotiate much better deals than other people with my mobile phone provider because they get a lot of custom from me.
Back to your problem. I sometimes do freebies for long-standing customers because it takes me 5 minutes, it is not worth invoicing and, as you say, they generate a lot of income. Yes, they are agencies and you know what, they sometimes reciprocate when I proofread for them and they have assumed it would take me two hours and it only took one (which I declare honestly). They do not update the PO but leave it as it is. We have a pleasant business relationship and neither of us are parasites (as some people seem to think all agencies are). There are sharks out there but not all agencies are unreasonable or unfair. It is in their interest since they know that I always deliver a good job and, therefore, they need to keep me sweet. Keep this in mind when negotiating. To build up a good relationship with another translator will cost the agency time and money. They do not really want to do this so stick to your guns and only accept what is fair.
I also get freebies from shops: mainly vegetables and fruit. Even my plumber will sometimes do some work for free when it is a small job. Guess what? I recommend his services, which generates more income for him.
| | | | Lingua 5B
Bosnien und Herzegowina
Local time: 18:03
Mitglied (2009)
Englisch > Kroatisch
+ ...
Marijke Singer wrote:
Even my plumber will sometimes do some work for free when it is a small job. Guess what? I recommend his services, which generates more income for him.
Last time I did a free translation for a friend, he erased my name ( I always sign my translations, because it's in our best interest for our names to get out there on the market when we are translators).. he erased my name and presented my work to everybody as his own copy in English. It did generate a lot of good things and praises for him.
I didn't ask for money, because it's a friend, but I did ask specifically for my name to be on my translation ( It had been an academic context, so it would have been highly relevant for me).
That much about free work and friends, goodwill and other lovely things mentioned in this thread.
Generally speaking, I see some point in free work if it will get my name out there. But will it indeed?
I realize that agencies also probably erase my name off my translations and put their logo instead, but at least they pay for the work.
p.s. Just because YOUR plumber does that, it doesn't mean everyone else's does as well. I will only recommend my plumber's services because they are high-quality, not because he does them for free now and then.
Edit: My message remains unchanged. Never do free work for anyone, except animal or children charities.
[Edited at 2009-08-11 19:16 GMT]
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| Are "freebies" a cultural thing? | Aug 11, 2009 |
Some posters mention that they never get any "freebies" in in their private (bakers, shops, doctors, plumbers) or business transactions.
Other posters claim that it is normal practice for them to get "freebies" in many different situations.
I was wondering if this is somehow a cultural thing.
My experience (Spain and Germany) is that customers often get "freebies" (special supermarket offers of 2 for the price of 3, free candies or chocolates for the childr... See more Some posters mention that they never get any "freebies" in in their private (bakers, shops, doctors, plumbers) or business transactions.
Other posters claim that it is normal practice for them to get "freebies" in many different situations.
I was wondering if this is somehow a cultural thing.
My experience (Spain and Germany) is that customers often get "freebies" (special supermarket offers of 2 for the price of 3, free candies or chocolates for the children, free prints at the photoshop, discounts at the vet when I take my for cats together for vaccination, and so on.
My local public transportation company gives you "free" rides in the bus if you use them frequently enough (monthly ticket instead of individual tickets).
Maybe in other countries this type of "freebies" something totally unacceptable but in Spain and Germany is not unsual at all.
I don't think that doing "free" jobs for a customer is a bad thing for your business if you are a freelance translator.
If the "freebies" keep your customer coming to you again and again with more paid job, you are actually getting more money from your customer than if you did not offer those "freebies".
The bottom line is that, in the end, there is not such a thing as free lunch, of course and in the end, of course, freebies are not free. They give you money.
To answer you question: how many freebies?
As many as your business requires as long as they make you earn money.
Add up all the money you have invoiced this customer. Add up all the hours you have worked for this customr ("free" and paid).
Divide the money by the hours and you will see if it is worthwhile. Stop doing freebies as soon as you realise that your overall income per hour from this customer is going too low.
Daniel ▲ Collapse
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Daniel García wrote:
As many as your business requires as long as they make you earn money.
Daniel
I don't fully agree; as in my opinion it's not always about money - actually, most of the time it isn't. There's an element of reciprocity that to me is far more important, plus an element of building trust and reputation, and earning goodwill.
I mostly ask for a freebie when I do not feel I have adequate control of the target language myself. Often that's with translators whose source language is Dutch (my mother tongue), and every now and then they come back to me with a quick question on the interpretation of a complicated Dutch phrase, or they ask me to help them with a small into-Dutch request for one of their direct clients. Sometimes they're stuck with Word or Trados, and ask me if I happen to know a quick fix, or perhaps they ask I can do a file conversion for them, or I can recommend them a good colleague who might be able to help them out when they suddenly find themselves down with a nasty flu.
And look at recent threads about asking for WWA entries or references. There's many ways in which providing occasional freebies can pay off, and money is only one of them.
| | | | Stanislaw Czech, MCIL CL
Vereinigtes Königreich
Local time: 17:03
Mitglied (2006)
Englisch > Polnisch
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SITE LOCALIZER | Why not ask them why they give this jobs to someone else? | Aug 11, 2009 |
Burrell wrote:
I translate regularly (every week) for a rather big translation agency however sometimes they give translation jobs to somebody else and want me to proofread these translations.
Hi,
I am wondering - have you asked them why they do not give these translations (the ones you proofread afterwards) to you? You could try to explain them that if their budget does not allow to pay for both translation and proofreading than they could at least pay for decent translation which would to a large degree render proofreading not necessary.
Best Regards
Stanislaw
| | | | | Freebies are never freebies | Aug 11, 2009 |
Unless offered by a freelancing translator
The butcher, the baker and the candlestick maker have all included these "freebies" in their business plans. Our "free" sausages and bread rolls, the 3 for 2 offers from Sainsbury's and the "free" lolly my son receives from the barber after a haircut have all been costed and included in their general pricing structure.
As long as freelance translators do the same... See more Unless offered by a freelancing translator
The butcher, the baker and the candlestick maker have all included these "freebies" in their business plans. Our "free" sausages and bread rolls, the 3 for 2 offers from Sainsbury's and the "free" lolly my son receives from the barber after a haircut have all been costed and included in their general pricing structure.
As long as freelance translators do the same, I see no problem with us offering freebies. But how many of us have included this "cost" in our pricing structure?
Edited for repeated text
[Edited at 2009-08-11 21:31 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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| Ultimate objective? | Aug 11, 2009 |
Susan van den Ende wrote:
There's an element of reciprocity that to me is far more important, plus an element of building trust and reputation, and earning goodwill.
(...)
And look at recent threads about asking for WWA entries or references. There's many ways in which providing occasional freebies can pay off, and money is only one of them.
But surely the ultimate purpose behind these actions is driven by some perceived business benefit? Goodwill generates business which generates money; WWA entries and references ditto, if you use them. In the long run, it's all about doing what you feel (or know) is required to keep your business going, which boils down to earning the folding stuff.
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Freebies are a question of marketing. And as Daniel has pointed out, here in Spain it is a way to make new clients and maintain those you already have. You don´t count them in your price, but you can deducted them in VAT payments. I´m talking about to solve an urgent problem with a phrase, an OCR edit, and also, postcards, T-shirts, and so on.
We don´t gift our work but with good clients we have these details. And for new ones, it´s a good welcome gift.
I have been ... See more Freebies are a question of marketing. And as Daniel has pointed out, here in Spain it is a way to make new clients and maintain those you already have. You don´t count them in your price, but you can deducted them in VAT payments. I´m talking about to solve an urgent problem with a phrase, an OCR edit, and also, postcards, T-shirts, and so on.
We don´t gift our work but with good clients we have these details. And for new ones, it´s a good welcome gift.
I have been given physiologic flip-flops, meals and new clients contacts from my clients. They are happy, I am happy. They have them with me, I have them with them. And when my incomes decrease, I look forward to new ideas to attract new clients.
As a biologist I call it "symbiosis". I need them as they need me. I give them as they give me. But, Daniel highlighted the point could be in differences between cultures and countries.
Good luck,
Gemma
PD: Do it while you are comfortable with it. Otherwise it´s call "parasitism" ▲ Collapse
| | | | | My definition of a freebie | Aug 13, 2009 |
A freebie, at least to me, is a little something someone offers, whether it be as a sign of appreciation, as a gift, as an incentive to buy more services or simply out of kindness. However, it is not a little something that can be requested. Then, it isn't a freebie anymore, but a no-cost service. There is a big difference!
In Burrell's case, there is no question of a freebie, as Burrell didn't offer the free service. It was requested by her client. That, to me, is not profes... See more A freebie, at least to me, is a little something someone offers, whether it be as a sign of appreciation, as a gift, as an incentive to buy more services or simply out of kindness. However, it is not a little something that can be requested. Then, it isn't a freebie anymore, but a no-cost service. There is a big difference!
In Burrell's case, there is no question of a freebie, as Burrell didn't offer the free service. It was requested by her client. That, to me, is not professional on the part of the client, and I would refuse to give it to them no matter how small the free service would be. Simply out of principle. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Given freely? | Aug 13, 2009 |
Gemma Sanza Porcar wrote:
I have been given physiologic flip-flops, meals and new clients contacts from my clients.
Did those clients give you those freebies of their own free will, or did you specifically ask for the freebies? There is a big difference there...
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| Ask for? Never! | Aug 13, 2009 |
ViktoriaG wrote:
Did those clients give you those freebies of their own free will, or did you specifically ask for the freebies? There is a big difference there...
I would never think of asking for a freebie! . They were given to me as a detail for my services (plus my translation price).
Cheers,
Gemma
| | | | Kevin Lossner
Portugal
Local time: 17:03
Deutsch > Englisch
+ ...
| My 'freebies' | Aug 13, 2009 |
Perhaps the basic problem here is that Ines' client expects work for free or under unreasonable terms. That's simply abusive as I see it and has nothing to do with good client relations. Usually what this leads to is further such demands until eventually one feels misused or sucked dry.
Despite my reputation as a vicious, money-grubbing capitalist swine, I actually do quite a number of 'freebies', though even my marketing-obsessed brain doesn't think about how to gain any adv... See more Perhaps the basic problem here is that Ines' client expects work for free or under unreasonable terms. That's simply abusive as I see it and has nothing to do with good client relations. Usually what this leads to is further such demands until eventually one feels misused or sucked dry.
Despite my reputation as a vicious, money-grubbing capitalist swine, I actually do quite a number of 'freebies', though even my marketing-obsessed brain doesn't think about how to gain any advantage with them. It's strictly a matter of personal choice and usually for clients from whom I earn the least and will probably continue to do so - clients that have been with me from the beginning of my career as a translator or who have distinguished themselves in some other way so that I don't think of the uncharged work as any more than a favor I would do for a family member or friend. However, I do draw very firm lines here: for one agency owner whom I consider a valued personal friend I will gladly write dunning letters in English, fine-tune his marketing letters or discuss strategies for new customers and never give a thought to writing a bill. But if his PMs ask for free proofreading or two sentences translated at no charge, I firmly refuse and write a bill. In some cases I suppose there is 'reciprocity' in the actions on both sides, but I don't really give a lot of thought to it. If I feel a limit is being reached, I say so and state what I feel would be a reasonable charge. I think as long as both sides consider each other as partners and are respectful there aren't any real hard and fast rules that apply - one freebie or 100 is all the same if no one feels abused. The moment your feel uncomfortable, simply say no or state a price. The actions that follow will be very revealing about the relationship, and it's up to you to draw your own conclusions.
If one of my clients treated me as Ines was treated, I would take a very dim view of the matter and dump that client ASAP. I've had a few like that in the past, but they never got that far, as I flushed them down the loo as soon as it was clear that they had the wrong attitude. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | That was my point | Aug 14, 2009 |
Gemma Sanza Porcar wrote:
I would never think of asking for a freebie! .
I am glad you agree. Freebies are like trust--they are always given, never taken and never requested.
Baker's dozens, free meat at the butcher's, free bus rides--they may exist (although I've only ever encountered them in Canada as promotional offers and not as freebies), but they are not given upon request. They are simply offered. When they are not offered, I wouldn't dare asking for them.
I have to admit, though, that I do tend to prefer merchants who offer freebies to those who don't, PROVIDED the merchandise is worth my money. If they offer substandard freebies with substandard merchandise, I still prefer to go elsewhere for quality merchandise even if I get no freebie.
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