Rate Per Target Word or Source Word
Initiator des Themas: Sylvia Hanna
Sylvia Hanna
Sylvia Hanna
Ägypten
Local time: 17:11
Englisch > Arabisch
+ ...
Aug 22, 2018

Is the default to give a rate per target word or source word?

 
zahra razavi
zahra razavi  Identity Verified
Local time: 23:11
Mitglied (2019)
Englisch > Persisch (Farsi)
+ ...
source word Aug 22, 2018

The default is to charge per source word but if your employer agrees charging per target word will be to your benefit.

 
Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida
Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 15:11
Mitglied (2007)
Englisch > Portugiesisch
+ ...
Default? Aug 22, 2018

I always quote per source word and invoice accordingly but I know of a few translators who for the same language pairs charge per target word, so I don't know what should be called a default…

Jorge Payan
 
Katalin Horváth McClure
Katalin Horváth McClure  Identity Verified
Vereinigte Staaten
Local time: 10:11
Mitglied (2002)
Englisch > Ungarisch
+ ...
Whatever makes sense Aug 22, 2018

Quoting based on source count makes sense to the client, because they know exactly how much they are going to pay. It also makes sense for the translator, because you know how much you are going to earn.
However, sometimes it is difficult or outright impossible to determine the number of source words, for example if the source file is a scanned PDF file that cannot be converted into an editable text file. In that case it makes sense to quote a "per target word" rate, knowing that the exac
... See more
Quoting based on source count makes sense to the client, because they know exactly how much they are going to pay. It also makes sense for the translator, because you know how much you are going to earn.
However, sometimes it is difficult or outright impossible to determine the number of source words, for example if the source file is a scanned PDF file that cannot be converted into an editable text file. In that case it makes sense to quote a "per target word" rate, knowing that the exact amount will only be known when the translation is finished. Another method is to charge per hour, if the project is complicated in a way that a per word rate would be disadvantageous (for example, handwritten old documents where deciphering the source takes a lot of time), or if when a creative process is needed, such as for slogans, advertisement phrases, etc. where the amount of resulting words does not correspond to the amount of time used for doing the work.

At the end of the day, you want to be paid for the time you spend. Whether you use a rate applied to source word count or another rate applied to target word count, or an hourly rate, you should be getting paid approximately the same amount on a per hour basis, regardless of which quoting/billing method you use.
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Joe Ly Sien
Sylvia Hanna
Christine Andersen
Liviu-Lee Roth
Nikki Scott-Despaigne
Samaa Zeitoun
Facundo Grassano
 
Christine Andersen
Christine Andersen  Identity Verified
Dänemark
Local time: 16:11
Mitglied (2003)
Dänisch > Englisch
+ ...
Different rates for different languages Aug 22, 2018

When I worked in house, the agency went from counting target words to counting source words. The reason was that earlier, most of the source documents were hard copy, and it was not easy to count the words, while the translations were all available in electronic form, so the words were easier to count.

During the transition, the company kept careful statistics of word counts, to ensure that they charged end clients the same for a given translation, regardless of which language they
... See more
When I worked in house, the agency went from counting target words to counting source words. The reason was that earlier, most of the source documents were hard copy, and it was not easy to count the words, while the translations were all available in electronic form, so the words were easier to count.

During the transition, the company kept careful statistics of word counts, to ensure that they charged end clients the same for a given translation, regardless of which language they counted words in.

I always translated from Danish to English, but they paid me DKK 0.85 per word as default - when the Danish words were counted. If it was not possible to count the source words, they paid me DKK 0.72 per target word. I accepted this, because when I worked in house I had kept statistics on my work, and could see the difference in the word counts.

It is often an advantage to charge per source word, but don't let agencies tell you that the rate is the same for any language or any language pair. It should not be, at any rate.
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Hedwig Spitzer (X)
 
Paweł Hamerski (X)
Paweł Hamerski (X)
Local time: 16:11
Englisch > Polnisch
+ ...
Normally I always quote for target word rate as I am sure then I can count the words/characters Aug 22, 2018

and moreover this is the exact work I did.

 
EvaVer (X)
EvaVer (X)  Identity Verified
Local time: 16:11
Tschechisch > Französisch
+ ...
You can do both Aug 23, 2018

but you must take into account the difference in length between languages. For example, French will be 20% longer on average than English. So that I always agree when French agencies use "per word in French" rates (whether French is the source or the target). In this example, if words in English are counted, your rate needs to be 20% higher.
By default (with my direct clients), I use target standard pages (the legacy method in my country). The target is what you must write, the actual phys
... See more
but you must take into account the difference in length between languages. For example, French will be 20% longer on average than English. So that I always agree when French agencies use "per word in French" rates (whether French is the source or the target). In this example, if words in English are counted, your rate needs to be 20% higher.
By default (with my direct clients), I use target standard pages (the legacy method in my country). The target is what you must write, the actual physical work you do, so this seems right to me. I also work with a non-negligible part of non-editable sources, so target is the only practical method.
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Sylvia Hanna
Daryo
 
Sylvia Hanna
Sylvia Hanna
Ägypten
Local time: 17:11
Englisch > Arabisch
+ ...
THEMENSTARTER
"to my benefit"! Aug 27, 2018

zahra razavi wrote:

The default is to charge per source word but if your employer agrees charging per target word will be to your benefit.


Why saying it would be to my benefit when English turns into less words in Arabic (most of the translations I do are from En to Are)? What's your calculation?
Thank you, Zahra.


 
Sylvia Hanna
Sylvia Hanna
Ägypten
Local time: 17:11
Englisch > Arabisch
+ ...
THEMENSTARTER
Detailed and useful - THANK YOU! Aug 27, 2018

Katalin Horváth McClure wrote:

Quoting based on source count makes sense to the client, because they know exactly how much they are going to pay. It also makes sense for the translator, because you know how much you are going to earn.
However, sometimes it is difficult or outright impossible to determine the number of source words, for example if the source file is a scanned PDF file that cannot be converted into an editable text file. In that case it makes sense to quote a "per target word" rate, knowing that the exact amount will only be known when the translation is finished. Another method is to charge per hour, if the project is complicated in a way that a per word rate would be disadvantageous (for example, handwritten old documents where deciphering the source takes a lot of time), or if when a creative process is needed, such as for slogans, advertisement phrases, etc. where the amount of resulting words does not correspond to the amount of time used for doing the work.

At the end of the day, you want to be paid for the time you spend. Whether you use a rate applied to source word count or another rate applied to target word count, or an hourly rate, you should be getting paid approximately the same amount on a per hour basis, regardless of which quoting/billing method you use.


 
Sylvia Hanna
Sylvia Hanna
Ägypten
Local time: 17:11
Englisch > Arabisch
+ ...
THEMENSTARTER
Which language is longer, Danish or English? Aug 30, 2018

Christine Andersen wrote:

When I worked in house, the agency went from counting target words to counting source words. The reason was that earlier, most of the source documents were hard copy, and it was not easy to count the words, while the translations were all available in electronic form, so the words were easier to count.

During the transition, the company kept careful statistics of word counts, to ensure that they charged end clients the same for a given translation, regardless of which language they counted words in.

I always translated from Danish to English, but they paid me DKK 0.85 per word as default - when the Danish words were counted. If it was not possible to count the source words, they paid me DKK 0.72 per target word. I accepted this, because when I worked in house I had kept statistics on my work, and could see the difference in the word counts.

It is often an advantage to charge per source word, but don't let agencies tell you that the rate is the same for any language or any language pair. It should not be, at any rate.



Thank you, Christine, for your useful answer.

I have got one question. Which one is longer Danish or English?


 
Sylvia Hanna
Sylvia Hanna
Ägypten
Local time: 17:11
Englisch > Arabisch
+ ...
THEMENSTARTER
Very useful. Thank you! Aug 30, 2018

EvaVer wrote:

but you must take into account the difference in length between languages. For example, French will be 20% longer on average than English. So that I always agree when French agencies use "per word in French" rates (whether French is the source or the target). In this example, if words in English are counted, your rate needs to be 20% higher.
By default (with my direct clients), I use target standard pages (the legacy method in my country). The target is what you must write, the actual physical work you do, so this seems right to me. I also work with a non-negligible part of non-editable sources, so target is the only practical method.


 
Daryo
Daryo
Vereinigtes Königreich
Local time: 15:11
Serbisch > Englisch
+ ...
Maybe not the default mode Sep 1, 2018

but it makes far more sense to take the volume of the Source Text as "indicator of quantity".

There is one very good reason for that: counting the "quantity" of the output potentially leads to paying more for worst quality.

Badly translated texts are longer that well translated texts - you don't need years of editing other people's texts to realise that - after only few weeks it becomes self-evident. So any client who knows the inner workings of the translation process
... See more
but it makes far more sense to take the volume of the Source Text as "indicator of quantity".

There is one very good reason for that: counting the "quantity" of the output potentially leads to paying more for worst quality.

Badly translated texts are longer that well translated texts - you don't need years of editing other people's texts to realise that - after only few weeks it becomes self-evident. So any client who knows the inner workings of the translation process would only ever accept to count the Source Text, not to put themselves in the position of potentially paying more for the unnecessary verbosity of a not so well translated text.

A related question is how to compare prices from one language combination to another - usually done with as much "precision" as when comparing the cost of a translation done by an employee vs the cost of a translation done by a freelancer.

If a translation of a text in language A into language B is usually/normally x % longer (whatever is the way it's measured - words/characters ...) then the "equivalent price" when counting the text in language A should be x % higher than for the language B. Practical example is the same text in language B is 30% more characters than in language A, then to be "the same" the price per character should be 30% higher for the less verbose language. I haven't seen yet a list of "prices for translations" that takes this "factor of conversion" into account (proz lists of prices are no better or worse in that regard ... 0.10 euros per word FR to EN is not the same as 0.10 euros per word EN to FR )

The other element is HOW to count - personally I think that counting all characters is the best indicator of simple quantity - no disputes possible about what is "a word" (not so obvious to define, once you scratch the surface ...)

An even more important element of the price is the complexity of the subject matter [strangely enough, not much discussions about that one]- as much important, if not more, than agreeing about how to measure the simple "quantity" of text - but that element is a proper nightmare to evaluate, and would probably generate even more "lively" debates than the ones about "native" languages.
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Sylvia Hanna
 


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Rate Per Target Word or Source Word







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