| Vom Thema belegte Seiten: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8] > | Off topic: Pronunciation that makes you cringe (inwardly) Initiator des Themas: Cilian O'Tuama
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Cilian O'Tuama 
Deutschland
Local time: 08:32
Deutsch > Englisch
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THEMENSTARTER | It's a perfectly legit Q, IMO. | Dec 14, 2022 |
Robert Rietvelt wrote:
I would love to join the conversation, but since this thread is for 'native speakers of English' only (which I am not), I better keep my mouth shut.
[Edited Edited Edited
But feel free to post something in your native language and ask for natives' opinions. I'd be fine with that, and wouldn't feel any need to intrude or be offended.
| | | | Cilian O'Tuama
Deutschland
Local time: 08:32
Deutsch > Englisch
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THEMENSTARTER | But I specifically wrote "mispronounced" :-) | Dec 14, 2022 |
Ice Scream wrote:
Could of, would of, should of
Mischeevious makes me smile, though.
When spoken, "could of" and "could have" (and "could've") can be indistinguishable. So bad examples 
I myself was guilty of your "mischeevious" example until a rather advanced age.
| | | | Cilian O'Tuama
Deutschland
Local time: 08:32
Deutsch > Englisch
+ ...
THEMENSTARTER | Maybe I was unclear, sorry. | Dec 14, 2022 |
Jennifer Levey wrote:
As long as anyone speaking in my native British English is making an honest attempt to communicate (which is, after all, the essential motive for speaking) then, frankly, I don't give a damn if they have difficulties with the pronunciation.
I was not referring to foreigners communicating in English.
I specifically mentioned German TV, and I was thinking more of big-name advertisers mispronouncing English words in their ads, whether for toiletries, sport...
Why do they use these English words if they can't pronounce them?
Maybe the thread should be put to bed.
| | | | Marjolein Snippe
Niederlande
Local time: 08:32
Mitglied (2012)
Englisch > Niederländisch
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| Don't put it to bed! | Dec 14, 2022 |
No, don't put it to bed! I am enjoying seeing these examples of common mispronunciations.
I recognised the French "law" but had no idea they pronounce similar words (paw, saw) correctly. How odd. I also had a colleague (both of us Dutch but working in the UK so speaking English at work) who pronounced "idea" as "ID". Of course it only takes a second inwardly to correct the meaning you hear to the intended meaning, but it always confused me for that second. I never got used to it.... See more No, don't put it to bed! I am enjoying seeing these examples of common mispronunciations.
I recognised the French "law" but had no idea they pronounce similar words (paw, saw) correctly. How odd. I also had a colleague (both of us Dutch but working in the UK so speaking English at work) who pronounced "idea" as "ID". Of course it only takes a second inwardly to correct the meaning you hear to the intended meaning, but it always confused me for that second. I never got used to it.
I once read that Dutch people have a habit of pronouncing "penal" (as in "penal code") as "penile". Has anyone ever heard this?
[Edited at 2022-12-14 09:54 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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Samuel Murray
Niederlande
Local time: 08:32
Mitglied (2006)
Englisch > Afrikaans
+ ...
| Dutch examples | Dec 14, 2022 |
When Dutch people borrow words from English, they sometimes change the pronunciation. For example, the word "reviews" (as in the comments that people make online after buying products) is pronounced reeeee-views (with the stress on the first syllable). And they pronounce the word "graffiti" as "gravity" (with the stress on the first syllable and with a v sound). Yes, I know "graffiti" isn't originally an English word, but I'm confident the Dutch borrowed it from English, not from e.g. Italian... See more When Dutch people borrow words from English, they sometimes change the pronunciation. For example, the word "reviews" (as in the comments that people make online after buying products) is pronounced reeeee-views (with the stress on the first syllable). And they pronounce the word "graffiti" as "gravity" (with the stress on the first syllable and with a v sound). Yes, I know "graffiti" isn't originally an English word, but I'm confident the Dutch borrowed it from English, not from e.g. Italian. These are not, strictly speaking, examples of English mispronunciation but of normal Dutch pronunciation, since these are loanwords (i.e. they are now considered Dutch words). ▲ Collapse
| | | | Tom in London
Vereinigtes Königreich
Local time: 07:32
Mitglied (2008)
Italienisch > Englisch
Samuel Murray wrote:
When Dutch people borrow words from English, they sometimes change the pronunciation. For example, the word "reviews" (as in the comments that people make online after buying products) is pronounced reeeee-views (with the stress on the first syllable). And they pronounce the word "graffiti" as "gravity" (with the stress on the first syllable and with a v sound). Yes, I know "graffiti" isn't originally an English word, but I'm confident the Dutch borrowed it from English, not from e.g. Italian. These are not, strictly speaking, examples of English mispronunciation but of normal Dutch pronunciation, since these are loanwords (i.e. they are now considered Dutch words).
The Italian verb "graffiare" means "to scratch." "Graffito" refers to a technique of etching decorative patterns into wet plaster. But the anglicised meaning of "graffiti" has come a long way down from (for example) the magnificent graffito work on the 16th century palace in Via Maggio in Florence, designed by the architect Bernardo Buontalenti for Bianca Cappello, the lover of Duke Francesco I de' Medici who, as you can see, rewarded her handsomely for her services.
[Edited at 2022-12-14 10:54 GMT]
| | | | Baran Keki
Türkei
Local time: 10:32
Mitglied
Englisch > Türkisch
| 'Foreigners' writing in English | Dec 14, 2022 |
It don't (ahem) make me cringe as it's not my language, but, being a translator translating from English, I often get frustrated by texts written by non-native English speakers (Europeans mostly) who seem to think they know English at a native speaker level.
The Dutch are the prime example of this. They are often praised for their English and they seem to write very well in it, but there always comes a sentence, a phrase where they mess things up (thinking in their language and writing in... See more It don't (ahem) make me cringe as it's not my language, but, being a translator translating from English, I often get frustrated by texts written by non-native English speakers (Europeans mostly) who seem to think they know English at a native speaker level.
The Dutch are the prime example of this. They are often praised for their English and they seem to write very well in it, but there always comes a sentence, a phrase where they mess things up (thinking in their language and writing in English), and they mess up big time whenever they attempt at a wordplay, pun etc. You may think it 'cringeworthy', but it's downright annoying when you have to translate/localize those into your target language. If I were to guess, I'd say almost 80 percent of the English texts I receive for translation are written by non-native English speakers.
I've been pondering about this question lately, and I'd welcome people's perspective on this:
Why is it that UK English, to all intents and purposes, seem to be the 'official' language of the European Union, given that they (Brits) have left the EU?
Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with this (in fact I don't care) and I do look forward to receiving the odd translation job through EU bodies as they pay well, but I'm just curious.
Of course, such official texts are written in far superior English (as compared to the pep talk of a Dutch or French CEO), but still the tell-tale signs are there to see, and there are instances where the flow of the text is disrupted and you're left wondering what the hell they meant by this or that sentence...
Sorry to be a killjoy. To get back to the topic, I know that Arabic people pronounce the letter "p" as "b" (as it's not in their alphabet I think). I once heard that an Arabic guy asked a traffic warden whether he could park his car in a particular spot, and the traffic warden said something like "it's free country mate, you can bark wherever you want". ▲ Collapse
| | | | Robert Rietvelt
Local time: 08:32
Mitglied (2006)
Spanisch > Niederländisch
+ ...
Cilian O'Tuama wrote:
Robert Rietvelt wrote:
I would love to join the conversation, but since this thread is for 'native speakers of English' only (which I am not), I better keep my mouth shut.
[Edited Edited Edited
But feel free to post something in your native language and ask for natives' opinions. I'd be fine with that, and wouldn't feel any need to intrude or be offended.
Of course you wouldn't feel any need to intrude or be offended, because you probably wouldn't understand a word of it, but most of us here on Proz do speak English.
And yes, your question is perfectly legit, but I just don't like the smell of it.
[Edited at 2022-12-14 10:55 GMT]
[Edited at 2022-12-14 11:33 GMT]
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Lieven Malaise
Belgien
Local time: 08:32
Mitglied (2020)
Französisch > Niederländisch
+ ...
Lingua 5B wrote:
Am I the only one who thinks this topic is slightly politically incorrect?
It kind of is. But I can't be bothered. Just think of an Englishman speaking French (or really any other non-English language), and all your worries disappear like snow in the sun.
| | | | Denis Fesik
Local time: 10:32
Englisch > Russisch
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| Don't some borrowed words make native speakers of English cringe? | Dec 14, 2022 |
Or is English super-optimised for borrowing all sorts of words and making them sound natural? I'm referring to another thread here that mentions loanwords in English. We've been borrowing lots of English words lately, and while our IT speak is mostly tolerable, our manager speak is a disaster (and I'm not a purist, far from it; I think my sister is learning to put up with it because she's part of that crowd, but I'm happy to be outside). Early on in my career, when I was a casino dealer, we'd pl... See more Or is English super-optimised for borrowing all sorts of words and making them sound natural? I'm referring to another thread here that mentions loanwords in English. We've been borrowing lots of English words lately, and while our IT speak is mostly tolerable, our manager speak is a disaster (and I'm not a purist, far from it; I think my sister is learning to put up with it because she's part of that crowd, but I'm happy to be outside). Early on in my career, when I was a casino dealer, we'd play club poker in our free time, and the kinds of words and expressions we'd use during the play were lovely, they communicated quite a level of tradition and authenticity while being pretty diverse in terms of origin (quite a few of them were translated from English, but the translations were witty and original). Today's poker geeks simply borrow every word from English (and I know all those words alright), attach some of the cringiest suffixes and endings to them, and call it a day. I promised myself I'd never watch a poker video in Russian again ▲ Collapse
| | | | Lingua 5B
Bosnien und Herzegowina
Local time: 08:32
Mitglied (2009)
Englisch > Kroatisch
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| It’s about how it was worded | Dec 14, 2022 |
“Cringe inwardly” is what struck me. We could have discussed phonemes, articulation shaping etc. and it would be a whole different matter.
| | | | Lingua 5B
Bosnien und Herzegowina
Local time: 08:32
Mitglied (2009)
Englisch > Kroatisch
+ ...
Lieven Malaise wrote:
Lingua 5B wrote:
Am I the only one who thinks this topic is slightly politically incorrect?
It kind of is. But I can't be bothered. Just think of an Englishman speaking French (or really any other non-English language), and all your worries disappear like snow in the sun.
A while ago I met an American who spoke Bosnian flawlessly (with nuanced vocabulary).
I did meet English people in France who spoke with thick English accent after 20 years in France and a French wife. It didn’t make me cringe as I know a bit about how articulation works and how and when it’s shaped.
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Lieven Malaise
Belgien
Local time: 08:32
Mitglied (2020)
Französisch > Niederländisch
+ ...
Lingua 5B wrote:
I did meet English people in France who spoke with thick English accent after 20 years in France and a French wife. It didn’t make me cringe as I know a bit about how articulation works and how and when it’s shaped.
Yes, I know there are also English people who manage to speak with a minor accent. I was just teasing a bit. But I do believe that for some reason they have a harder time to control accents than many other nationalities.
Anyway, I couldn't care less about the accent of foreigners trying to speak my language. I'm always pleased and impressed if they are able to conversate in my language, thick accent or not.
| | | | | I wasn't either (referring to foreigners communicating in English) | Dec 14, 2022 |
Cilian O'Tuama wrote:
Jennifer Levey wrote:
As long as anyone speaking in my native British English is making an honest attempt to communicate (which is, after all, the essential motive for speaking) then, frankly, I don't give a damn if they have difficulties with the pronunciation.
I was not referring to foreigners communicating in English.
...
I wasn't 'only' referring to foreigners who get confused about English pronunciation. I'm sure many native-born English folk would have to think carefully as they read this:
A rough-coated, dough-faced, thoughtful ploughman strode through the streets of Scarborough; after falling into a slough, he coughed and hiccoughed.
| | | | Tom in London
Vereinigtes Königreich
Local time: 07:32
Mitglied (2008)
Italienisch > Englisch
| Stanlio e Ollio | Dec 14, 2022 |
To make Laurel & Hardy sound as ridiculous as possible in Italian, the great actors Alberto Sordi ("Ollio", Oliver Hardy) and Mauro Zambuto ("Stanlio", Stan Laurel) dubbed them in Italian the way Englishmen speak it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwz9fIVa5yE
[Edited at 2022-12-14 11:26 GMT]
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