| Vom Thema belegte Seiten: < [1 2 3 4 5] > | Translation business in a deep slump? Initiator des Themas: JAN SNAUWAERT
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Iman Tahanan
Local time: 11:29
Englisch > Persisch (Farsi)
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JAN SNAUWAERT wrote:
Hi all,
I have been in the translation business for several years now and have been quite successful, if I may say so myself.
However, this year, something changed and changed quite a lot. I attribute it to the steep rise of AI in the translation business.
Since several months now, my job volume has plumetted drastically. I am only a year and a half away from retirement, so it need not be a disaster financially, but it is far from a fun experience.
Do you, colleague Proz members, experience something similar?
I agree. I have had the same experience. I think AI can progress a lot more especially considering the big competition that exists among countries regarding the use of AI.
| | | | Anne Maclennan 
Local time: 08:29
Mitglied (2010)
Deutsch > Englisch
+ ...
| The trend seems to be downward | Nov 7 |
Lea_May wrote:
“I still think the real cause is the economic slowdown, if you don't like to call it a recession.
Look at the slowly decelerating inflation rates. Take the German economy, it's been down since last year, if not before.”
Until recently most of my regular customers were in Germany or required translation from German. This is no longer the case. Now my “regular” customers in Germany contact me only very occasionally to request a translation. The bu... See more Lea_May wrote:
“I still think the real cause is the economic slowdown, if you don't like to call it a recession.
Look at the slowly decelerating inflation rates. Take the German economy, it's been down since last year, if not before.”
Until recently most of my regular customers were in Germany or required translation from German. This is no longer the case. Now my “regular” customers in Germany contact me only very occasionally to request a translation. The bulk of my (much reduced) volume of work now comes from a handful of customers based in France and Switzerland.
David Gay wrote:
“My barometer, beyond the signals already mentioned above by Kevin Fulton, is
the number of small agencies that cease trading.”
I have also noticed that many former customers – small agencies – have ceased trading or been swallowed up by conglomerate agencies.
Iman Tahanan wrote:
“… my job volume has plummeted drastically.”
Iman, my experience matches yours. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Chris Spurgin
Vereinigtes Königreich
Local time: 07:29
Mitglied (2016)
Russisch > Englisch
+ ...
| Inflation, low growth, energy costs | Nov 8 |
Inflation and energy bills have been a killer for a lot of businesses. If you can't relocate as a business, then you just lose profit, and if these costs are high, then projects don't get launched, products don't get released.
Rising costs probably sealed the fate of a few agencies.
It seems that the US economy is the only one in the developed world that is growing strongly. The US electorate kicked their government out of office this week, as many of you will have noti... See more Inflation and energy bills have been a killer for a lot of businesses. If you can't relocate as a business, then you just lose profit, and if these costs are high, then projects don't get launched, products don't get released.
Rising costs probably sealed the fate of a few agencies.
It seems that the US economy is the only one in the developed world that is growing strongly. The US electorate kicked their government out of office this week, as many of you will have noticed. Many European leaders would kill for the economic growth which the Democrats achieved and which the electorate found insufficient. European countries risk becoming an afterthought for a lot of things. Look at the GDP figures for the EU and US in 2008 and look at them now.
I use AI to look up terminology now and then. It is quite hit and miss. A lot of the people using AI now were probably using MT before.
From my co-working space I know that things are a rollercoaster in other industries.
[Edited at 2024-11-08 11:33 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Gary Hess
Local time: 08:29
Deutsch > Englisch
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| What I didn't realize ... | Nov 10 |
I always used to think that machine translation would never be good enough to replace us. I still think it's true, at least for clients who need accurate translations. What I didn't realize is that MT/AI would crush the prices in our business. Look at the number of big companies now offering free translations within their own software products. I don't think we can charge a survivable rate against that competition, unless we are highly specialized in some industry where the customers are savvy a... See more I always used to think that machine translation would never be good enough to replace us. I still think it's true, at least for clients who need accurate translations. What I didn't realize is that MT/AI would crush the prices in our business. Look at the number of big companies now offering free translations within their own software products. I don't think we can charge a survivable rate against that competition, unless we are highly specialized in some industry where the customers are savvy and need accurate translations.
On a side note: Does anyone watch the price of RWS Holdings stock? As a fan of SDL Trados software, I have an occasional glance. Despite announcing a new "partnership" with Meta Platforms this summer, RWS continues to plummet. I do feel a bit of schadenfreude since RWS has been a leader in the race to the bottom in recent decades.
https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/RWS.L/ ▲ Collapse
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David GAY
Local time: 08:29
Englisch > Französisch
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Gary Hess wrote:
On a side note: Does anyone watch the price of RWS Holdings stock? As a fan of SDL Trados software, I have an occasional glance. Despite announcing a new "partnership" with Meta Platforms this summer, RWS continues to plummet. I do feel a bit of schadenfreude since RWS has been a leader in the race to the bottom in recent decades.
https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/RWS.L/
It just shows that the translation business has become a cut throat industry, including for the huge LSPs that have gobbled up their competitors.I wouldn't be surprised if one of those famous companies went bust very soon given their BB record.
| | | | Dan Lucas
Vereinigtes Königreich
Local time: 07:29
Mitglied (2014)
Japanisch > Englisch
Gary Hess wrote:
...unless we are highly specialized in some industry where the customers are savvy and need accurate translations.
Well, exactly. These will be the last translators left standing (for what that's worth).
Can you believe that even a few short years ago there were still people on this forum were arguing that there was no need for freelancers to specialize?
Dan
| | | | Lieven Malaise
Belgien
Local time: 08:29
Mitglied (2020)
Französisch > Niederländisch
+ ...
Gary Hess wrote:
I don't think we can charge a survivable rate against that competition, unless we are highly specialized in some industry where the customers are savvy and need accurate translations.
I don't understand why you (and other people) seem to believe that AI and MT would mean that businesses or governments won't need accurate translations anymore. The fact that they do is the reason there is still a translation (or post-editing) industry and there still will be one in the future, imo. Again: this will only stop if AI/MT delivers flawless translations, but it simply doesn't and there is no reason to believe it will be able to do that in the coming years.
I've also seen people mention here that there is now a "good-enough" attitude towards translation, but I can't see that with my own customers. My work varies from technical, legal, financial, training, medical, economical, environmental, science, marketing... stuff for businesses to a variety of documents for government agencies and the one and only requirement still is, even with MTPE: top-notch quality.
Some people seem to forget that horrible translations have been an essential part of the translation industry since like ever, and most certainly from before the AI/MT era. In other words: if there is a "good enough" or "who cares" attitude now, then there has always been one.
| | | | Dan Lucas
Vereinigtes Königreich
Local time: 07:29
Mitglied (2014)
Japanisch > Englisch
Lieven Malaise wrote:
My work varies from technical, legal, financial, training, medical, economical, environmental, science, marketing... stuff for businesses to a variety of documents for government agencies and the one and only requirement still is, even with MTPE: top-notch quality.
I actually kind of think of people like yourself as being specialists of the mode of work, rather than specialists in content. That is, as you have described several times, you've learned the skill of MTPE (I just know some people on here will reflectively snort at my use of the word "skill", but I'm comfortable with it) and specialized in that area. I wonder whether if over time people will start to specialize even within MTPE? Maybe they do already?
Some people seem to forget that horrible translations have been an essential part of the translation industry since like ever, and most certainly from before the AI/MT era. In other words: if there is a "good enough" or "who cares" attitude now, then there has always been one.
Exactly, the low end of the market used to be some bloke, who had basic high school English and who in his youth spent three months in a homestay in the United States, "translating" from his own language into English, resulting in text that was occasionally comprehensible but mostly not. Now people using Google Translate or DeepL to achieve the same thing, but if anything slightly better.
Dan
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Denis Danchenko
Ukraine
Local time: 09:29
Mitglied (2012)
Englisch > Russisch
+ ...
Lieven Malaise wrote:
My work varies from technical, legal, financial, training, medical, economical, environmental, science, marketing... stuff for businesses to a variety of documents for government agencies and the one and only requirement still is, even with MTPE: top-notch quality.
How do you define 'top-notch quality'? How do you make sure you deliver it across such a wide spectrum of subject fields? Specialized translation requires domain knowledge (at the very least on the terminology level): how do you manage your conceptual gaps?
| | | | Denis Danchenko
Ukraine
Local time: 09:29
Mitglied (2012)
Englisch > Russisch
+ ...
| translator competencies | Nov 11 |
Dan Lucas wrote:
I actually kind of think of people like yourself as being specialists of the mode of work, rather than specialists in content.
Dan
That's what ASTM F 2575 defines as 'task-type competence' vs 'subject-field competence'. It's just one of the many specified TSP selection criteria.
| | | | Denis Danchenko
Ukraine
Local time: 09:29
Mitglied (2012)
Englisch > Russisch
+ ...
| Self-styled "Bullshido" Times | Nov 11 |
Here's a good example of the shallow-mind "bullshido" culture in techcomm.
This one is from the Reddit thread on automotive tech writing.
Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/technicalwriting/comments/1d2wgg3/are_there_any_automotive_tech_writers_here_who/?rdt=61989
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I worked at a car company as a t... See more Here's a good example of the shallow-mind "bullshido" culture in techcomm.
This one is from the Reddit thread on automotive tech writing.
Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/technicalwriting/comments/1d2wgg3/are_there_any_automotive_tech_writers_here_who/?rdt=61989
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I worked at a car company as a tech writer for owner’s manuals and some other more technical projects.
I love cars, have worked on my own since I was a teenager, and have amassed quite a bit of knowledge. I thought I landed the perfect job for me. Turns out no one actually cares about your automotive knowledge and instead you’re going head to head with people who have never opened the hood of a car. They often outnumbered me and didn’t care about industry standards or using the correct terms for things. It was by far the most frustrating job I’ve ever had.
I decided that the culture of where I work is now the leading factor over the subject matter. Please take this into account when looking for a tech writing job. Cool subject matter does not equal cool job unfortunately.
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'Bullshido' in action: https://www.facebook.com/reel/858907898955975
[Edited at 2024-11-11 13:46 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Lieven Malaise
Belgien
Local time: 08:29
Mitglied (2020)
Französisch > Niederländisch
+ ...
Denis Danchenko wrote:
How do you define 'top-notch quality'?
Like everyone should: the highest possible level in style, grammar, spelling, accuracy and terminology (taking into account that we remain humans who now and then make a mistake).
Denis Danchenko wrote:
How do you make sure you deliver it across such a wide spectrum of subject fields? Specialized translation requires domain knowledge (at the very least on the terminology level): how do you manage your conceptual gaps?
How do I make it sure? By doing what I'm specialized in: understanding the most complex sentences and converting them from one language into the other. Why should a (well formulated) sentence about a complex machine, a law or a financial report be difficult to translate? It's still nothing more than a combination of grammar and spelling. I translate manuals about the most complex machines and certainly after 24 years I see no reason whatsoever why I wouldn't be able to do that. Terminology is widely available on the internet and so is conceptual knowledge. The question is not if you will find an explanation about any subject on the internet, but rather if there are any possible subjects you won't find an explanation about in the first place. And as a last resort there's always the end customer to ask the necessary specifics.
I can't stress this enough: if I would have limited myself to 1 or 2 specializations, I probably would have already been out of business for a long time. I understand that my specialization skills are questioned by colleagues, but there is only 1 truth that matters: I have a loyal client base (15-20 customers, of which 1 direct client) that keeps on returning to me for the most varied and complex assignments, for almost 20 freelancing years now. Justified negative feedback in all those years: next to inexistant. Justified negative feedback in the last 10 years: inexistant.
I see people entering the freelancing market with zero experience, 1 language pair (or worse, 2 language pairs of which one into a non-native language) and 1 or 2 or maybe 3 specialisations. I can only say this: I would never have become a freelancer without my 5 years of in-house experience, at least 2 language pairs (into my mother tongue, and I have even 3 language pairs) and my basically infinite specialisation offer. It brought me where I am today: in a still excellent place which appears to be located amid a graveyard (which I think it isn't, because I firmly believe that most other succesful translators just don't bother to communicate here; I'm pretty sure the Proz forums aren't in the least representative for the translation market).
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Gary Hess
Local time: 08:29
Deutsch > Englisch
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| Your working languages (... to Dutch) | Nov 11 |
@Lieven Malaise: Looking at your working languages and from what I know about MT/AI, I think that you have not yet been so highly impacted by MT/AI because Dutch is a less mainstream language. AI needs a large volume of high-quality training material that already exists for German-English. I suspect that the same level has not yet been reached for Dutch (especially the French-Dutch and German-Dutch pairs).
Another thought: This is based on anecdotal evidence (e.g. an acquaintance wh... See more @Lieven Malaise: Looking at your working languages and from what I know about MT/AI, I think that you have not yet been so highly impacted by MT/AI because Dutch is a less mainstream language. AI needs a large volume of high-quality training material that already exists for German-English. I suspect that the same level has not yet been reached for Dutch (especially the French-Dutch and German-Dutch pairs).
Another thought: This is based on anecdotal evidence (e.g. an acquaintance who works at SAP), but what I am finding here in Germany is that many texts that a few years back would have been sent to a translation agency are now being translated by the authors (engineers) themselves who then correct the MT text. It's not perfect in my opinion (or even full of mistakes), but from a non-native-speaker perspective, it's good enough and it's cutting into our business volume.
I also find myself correcting a lot more English written by Germans these days, as opposed to translating their German texts into English.
My perhaps narrow-minded conclusion is that a Belgian working into Dutch can't really perceive what is happening in Germany to German-English translators over the past few years.
Finally, I find myself wondering how many words per day you are able to deliver, Lieven? If you are capable of high volume, then that could also explain our differences in perspective here. I think a lot of us can't crank it out as fast as we would like to. ▲ Collapse
| | | | David GAY
Local time: 08:29
Englisch > Französisch
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| New specialization | Nov 11 |
Dan Lucas wrote:
Gary Hess wrote:
...unless we are highly specialized in some industry where the customers are savvy and need accurate translations.
Well, exactly. These will be the last translators left standing (for what that's worth).
Can you believe that even a few short years ago there were still people on this forum were arguing that there was no need for freelancers to specialize?
Dan
It seems the new winning specialization is high turnaround MTPE 😁
| | | | Lieven Malaise
Belgien
Local time: 08:29
Mitglied (2020)
Französisch > Niederländisch
+ ...
Gary Hess wrote:
@Lieven Malaise: Looking at your working languages and from what I know about MT/AI, I think that you have not yet been so highly impacted by MT/AI because Dutch is a less mainstream language. AI needs a large volume of high-quality training material that already exists for German-English. I suspect that the same level has not yet been reached for Dutch (especially the French-Dutch and German-Dutch pairs).
I live in a trilingual country, with tons of at least bilingual (French-Dutch) content created/translated every single day since decades. How much (publicly available!) training material would you like? 😊
The MT output from French is remarkably good, but far from perfect. And that's exactly my point: in a world where accuracy still matters (and it does) that simply isn't good enough.
I'm not sure about the training material argument, by the way, because the MT output from English is even better than from French, whereas one would think that there is less training material available.
Gary Hess wrote:
My perhaps narrow-minded conclusion is that a Belgian working into Dutch can't really perceive what is happening in Germany to German-English translators over the past few years.
You are absolutely right about that, but I was talking about the need of accurate translations. It think it's not unrealistic to believe that accuracy is still wanted in every country, including Germany. So the use of AI/MT without expert intervention would remain a bad idea for now.
Gary Hess wrote:
I find myself wondering how many words per day you are able to deliver, Lieven? If you are capable of high volume, then that could also explain our differences in perspective here. I think a lot of us can't crank it out as fast as we would like to.
I'm able to translate 4000 words a day, comfortably, to 6000 words, exceptionally. Post-editing: 6000 words a day, comfortably, to 10.000 words, exceptionally.
Please note that I'm not a 9 to 5'er. From Monday to Thursday I easily work until 10 p.m. and sometimes until and past midnight (although that has a lot to do with the fact that I'm a single parent spending at least 4 hours a day doing the housekeeping). So I work a lot, but that's due to the self-employment culture in Belgium : it's perceived as normal that self-employed people go ten extra miles.
[Bijgewerkt op 2024-11-11 19:00 GMT]
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